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Post by ClericalError on Oct 15, 2005 11:48:12 GMT -5
I'm aware of the fact that I'm not the best, Observer. I simply point out that the majority of people I know who are skilled with some form of firearm, the better ones tend to be women. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted me.
Next, neither of your points are what I refer to. Women generally have higher metabolisms, which is why in the study of certain drugs the half-life is based on female subjects rather than men, providing more accurate data.
Due to the fact that Prozium wears off like any other drug, and the widely-held belief amonst EQ fans that due to the nature of their work Clerics are more vulnerable to feeling and thus take a larger dose, this would lead to the conclusion that a female Cleric would metabolise her dose faster than her male counterparts and thus be open to any emotional stimuli.
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Post by Libby on Oct 15, 2005 17:09:15 GMT -5
and the widely-held belief amonst EQ fans that due to the nature of their work Clerics are more vulnerable to feeling and thus take a larger dose. Hmm...not so sure it's that widely-held. Actually, I tend to think that the doses the Clerics take are very finely balanced, allowing them to function at their peak performance. I don't think they would take larger doses at all. Preston misses one dose and the emotions kick in almost instantly (OK, we know he's predisposed to feeling but that isn't the point...) suggesting that the doses are just enough to keep him in check. That's why Librians must adhere to a strict schedule (bit like taking the mini-pill...has to be the same time everyday with a very small window...) We know that Brandt is underdosed or off altogether, but he still tells Preston he might get his dose adjusted, which suggests again it's a fine line. Of course, the Conspiracy Theorist in me has just suggested that maybe Preston's doses were 'engineered' to be even more finely tuned so that missing one dose would have the desired effect....
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Post by Observer on Oct 16, 2005 0:46:54 GMT -5
I made no comment on your particular shooting abilities, Clerical Error.
I pointed out Mr. Leatham as an example of male performance in practical/ defensive shooting. I raised Mr. Leatham's world champion credentials specifically because he uses a .45 in some classes of match and because you claimed not to know many other men who could match your performance with a .45:
"Hard with a .45 because the recoil throws your aim off with each shot. Don't know many other men who can do anything similar."
Your personal experience, "the majority of people I know who are skilled with some form of firearm, the better ones tend to be women" is contrary to the norm. Most champion IPSC/ IDPA/ USPSA shooters tend to be men.
I'm not sure what you mean by, "Next, neither of your points are what I refer to."
You made a declarative statemen which I will requote verbatim: "Next, it's a fact that women are biologically stronger than men."
I found evidence to the contrary, posted it, and asked you to support the statement you made, that's all.
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DemonEyedGunman
Resistance Member
I see with the eyes of a hunter, no one can escape. I'm a devil of a gunman, for you it is too late.
Posts: 16
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Post by DemonEyedGunman on Oct 18, 2005 12:23:13 GMT -5
I have to completely agree with Observer on this subject. No offense againts women, but it has been proven in MANY different fields and subjects that men are stronger than women. I am not going to post any links because Observer did a fine job of backing up his well explained opinion. I will state that in every single sport and competition regarding physical strength, a man holds the world record. If you dont believe me go to the guiness book of world records or any official website concerning competitions of physical strength. Again I apologize if this offends any females, but they are facts not opinions.
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ebime
Resistance Member
"Everybody dies, but only a few ever truely live!"
Posts: 25
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Post by ebime on Oct 20, 2005 15:05:53 GMT -5
OK, I'll chime in this one : Physically, men are stronger and have more endurance, but women have more tolerance for pain and are more precise dexterity wise. These are facts I learned at university and re-checked in various books. Men are more fact-oriented while women are more emotion-oriented, especially with all the hormones playing their game in women's bodies.
These are medical facts. There is a balance in th euniverse and it is what separates the sexes. It all comes from our ancestors of wayyyy back. Men were the hunters and women tended to the kids and camp. Heck! It's still like that in some parts of the world! If it was the other way around with physical and psychological attributes, don't you think it would have been the other way around for duties?
This political correctness BS has got to stop as it is counter-productive. It only serves to flatter some egos and separate us on the really important issues, in this forum or out in day-to-day life. There are studies on these things and opinions change nothing to the facts. I'm so tired of the fact that you can't say anything about women, races, religions, sexual orientations and whatever other stupid motives people can think of. Take your strengths and make-do! If you keep envying others for what you are not and would like to be, I can only tell you that you are on the wrong road to success...
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Post by eightchangingpalm on Nov 11, 2005 8:07:37 GMT -5
*sigh*
Women are NOT better suited for hand to hand combat than men. There is a reason for this: Muscle structure and potential. Human Male physiology and the simple fact that males produce A LOT of Testosterone *(you know, the stuff that makes muscles....) than females. That said, a woman no matter how hard she works out could never develop the muscle structure that a man could using the same physical regimen.
"Strength is not important in combat?" Did somebody actually say this nonsense? Obviously you have never been in a fight before, and no, being kicked on the ground while you’re in the fetal position does not count. A female can have great skill, fast reflexes, but if her hits deliver no power to them then what exactly is accomplished except an expenditure of energy.
Oh and of course there is that fantasy martial arts romp that all hand-lotion using fanboys herald as the greatest martial arts movie ever: CTHD .....Ohhhh I used the anachronism...I feel so cool. I don't suppose any of you Kung Fu movie scholars have ever seen 36 Chambers of Xaolin or Master Killer. Training to achieve the martial abilities shown in these movies took years and involved a lot of STRENGTH AND BODY CONDITIONING to compliment the movement techniques that were also being learned.
Please.....no more of this rabble about how chicks are so tough and what not. There is enough of that sort of nonsense on TV and in movies that it’s sickening. I have trained with females in my studies and much respect and admiration do they deserve, but the equal of the male practitioners they are not.
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Post by Cleric Claire on Nov 11, 2005 14:25:09 GMT -5
I'm a girl, and I know that man are more suited to combat then women. Women are more flexible and faster, but they just aren't as strong. That doesn't mean girl's can't be good in combat, it just means they have to work twice as hard. I think a female cleric is doable, because the cleric use a lot of weapons. They use guns and swords and the butts of their guns, in which women could be quite effective.
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homyck
Sense Offender
Run ! Die Tired...
Posts: 7
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Post by homyck on Dec 23, 2005 15:59:50 GMT -5
I'm a girl, and I know that man are more suited to combat then women. Women are more flexible and faster, but they just aren't as strong. That doesn't mean girl's can't be good in combat, it just means they have to work twice as hard. I think a female cleric is doable, because the cleric use a lot of weapons. They use guns and swords and the butts of their guns, in which women could be quite effective. Did you know that 1/3 of current military/police/whatever snipers are WOMEN ? Why ? Because they can concentrate =P And they don't drool when they see a super smexy babe ;-) AND they can shoot really f***ing good (aka my girlfriend, future police sniper) But why haven't we see any women clerics ? That's a mystery yet to be solved ...
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Post by JenGe on Dec 23, 2005 19:09:39 GMT -5
But why haven't we see any women clerics ? That's a mystery yet to be solved ... I get the feeling this is a very "paternal" society.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 2, 2006 8:26:05 GMT -5
The fact they have a Father figure and not a Mother is a good pointer to that Jen. Then again I have my own theories why House of Cards wasn't it?
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Post by cleric87 on Jan 24, 2006 23:00:49 GMT -5
Personally I belive they ment their to be no female Clerics. By definnition if you know the many religious themes a cleric is a an ordained preist, minister or rabbi. So it makes sense there are no females. Though it would have not been a bad inclusion.
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sophialee
Resistance Member
TetraGrammaton. There's nothing we can't do.
Posts: 39
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Post by sophialee on Feb 6, 2006 8:14:52 GMT -5
c'mon everyone knows that a cleric is a minister. but the problem is in the film that's a totally different world. I just want to become a cleric though I'm a girl... I'm sure it'd be coooooooooool...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2006 8:16:23 GMT -5
Join the Order of the New Grammaton
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sophialee
Resistance Member
TetraGrammaton. There's nothing we can't do.
Posts: 39
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Post by sophialee on Feb 6, 2006 8:27:56 GMT -5
Oh I'd love to... if there really is such a thing....
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2006 8:31:01 GMT -5
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sophialee
Resistance Member
TetraGrammaton. There's nothing we can't do.
Posts: 39
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Post by sophialee on Feb 6, 2006 8:35:39 GMT -5
GOD!!!! such a long story... I'll find time to read it this week. thank you Clericwolf!!
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2006 8:44:03 GMT -5
*tips his hat* You're welcome.
That's small for one of my tales, heh...compared to my own book which is around 88,000 words (408 pages) in length. This is the story that got me a personal message from EQ's Storyboard Artist (Steve Werblun) and is/was my attempt at a kind-of sequel to EQ itself.
I'm working on the sequel to Ashes at the moment, amongst other things. Though the protagonist for that story will be Tara, since I wanted to explore the Order of the New Grammaton in the new tale.
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sophialee
Resistance Member
TetraGrammaton. There's nothing we can't do.
Posts: 39
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Post by sophialee on Feb 6, 2006 8:57:22 GMT -5
408 pages of English is just Mission Impossible for me... anyway, thank you so much!!! I guess my english will be much better after reading all your work!!
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2006 9:01:31 GMT -5
*chuckles* A lot of it is in the EC-10 forums, and there's a fair amount of it on Jen's site itself along with the other excellent writers, like MaWa, Judas, Coolhand and Libby
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sophialee
Resistance Member
TetraGrammaton. There's nothing we can't do.
Posts: 39
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Post by sophialee on Feb 6, 2006 9:06:32 GMT -5
fanfics are all great works of great minds. ;D
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2006 10:05:12 GMT -5
I'll drink to that
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Agent Scully
Resistance Member
Science only teaches us how, not why.
Posts: 15
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Post by Agent Scully on Feb 12, 2006 2:12:27 GMT -5
What an interesting thread... ;D I believe that women and men have so much in common, for example, both are humans ;D, and have lots of very similar characteristics more than differences, but I guess we have the tendency to highlight the differences because they seem more intriguing. In a totalitarian society like Libria, they have "evolved" but the women stay at home (fold their husband's clothes, etc. ) and are not seen working at the Tetragrammaton. We'll see Wimmer's alternative take to this issue - somewhat - with UV.
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Agent Scully
Resistance Member
Science only teaches us how, not why.
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Post by Agent Scully on Feb 17, 2006 4:25:30 GMT -5
Found this on the net recently. I guess, Violet would qualify as a Cleric. Check out Wimmer's blackeye story: Excerpt: Milla Jovovich is Violet in UltraViolet. This one is directed and written by Kurt Wimmer – who got Christian Bale to play this ultracool cop in Equilibrium. Wimmer apparently wrote the role of Violet for Jovovich. According to one story on the Net, Wimmer asked Jovovich to punch him to feel just how much strength she’s putting into her action sequences. He got the answer and he directed the next few days with a black eye. from: www.star-ecentral.com/news/story.asp?file=/2006/2/17/movies/13393767&sec=movies
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 17, 2006 5:47:39 GMT -5
Milla, heh, she doesn't pull her punches - ever.
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Mig
Sense Offender
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Post by Mig on Apr 19, 2006 19:56:10 GMT -5
In some schools of anti-terrorist organisations the members of the team are actually trained to take down any female terrorists first. It is said (based on research appearantly), that an armed woman generally is not as prone to hesitation as a male counterpart. Peace Dahzek Yup, much more mental j/k I agree more with Faust in this thread than anyone else. Most men do have a significant strength advantage and technique comes with training. When I used to do Judo I had female Dan grades who had all the technique in the world but couldn't throw me (I'm taking it to extremes here as I'm 17 stone and built like a brick outhouse) but I found with little technique I could quite easily counter and put them flat on their backs. I think the observations that women make the best assassins is a valid one but more because of the perception of women. When assassinations were commonplace, nobody really paid any attention to women unless they were trying to sleep with them. Women can get into more intimate situations as well where their target is less likely to be armoured or expecting an attempt on their life. Couple this with excellent training and the ability to adapt and you've got yourself one effective assassin As far as the 'killer instinct' goes, I believe everyone has it. It'll come out in some people quicker and in different circumstances but I believe if anyone's life is in danger that much then they're going to take the nearest thing to hand and attempt to bludgeon their attacker to death with it before making a quick exit. I know I would.
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Post by wtf on Apr 19, 2006 21:24:34 GMT -5
I agree more with Faust in this thread than anyone else. Most men do have a significant strength advantage and technique comes with training. When I used to do Judo I had female Dan grades who had all the technique in the world but couldn't throw me (I'm taking it to extremes here as I'm 17 stone and built like a brick outhouse) but I found with little technique I could quite easily counter and put them flat on their backs. Heya Mig, and welcome to the boards. On "technique" I'd have to argue that there are about a gazillion different ones that fit certain body types and principles of physics. From personal experience in Aikido, the techniques in it are all about the proper application of physics and joint locks in order to either redirect the force of your opponent or pin them down. "Powering through a technique" is usually not seen with finesse, especially at the lower levels since concentration is off in order to "show off" or try to "fix" a lack of skill in application. Brazillian Ju-jitsu is another martial art which also has joint locks and grappling that was specifically designed by it's creator, Helio Gracie, who had a smaller stature than his competitors. The type of Jujitsu being taught during his time still was dominated by more burly competition, so Helio concentrated on taking those techniques and creating something that was pretty darn effective against opponents much larger and stronger than himself. I'm not knocking on Judo since there is some good stuff in it I like, but there are other arts that have tackled the opponent strength descrimination with success. I'm not a believer in "the ultimate martial art" because nothing can address all fight situations, all body types, etc. I look at styles as toolboxes and techniques as tools.
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Mig
Sense Offender
Posts: 7
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Post by Mig on Apr 20, 2006 5:16:15 GMT -5
You're right about holding technique over power. Using strength in a throw where technique would provide the same result with less effort is always better. My point was that with little technique I was able to beat a dan grade who's grasp of the technique was considerably more proficient than mine. This isn't the way it should be done as I'm using strength instead of technique , however, if I were to master the technique AND have the strength then I would be more likely to beat somebody who had only technique.
Don't get me wrong, I've been caught unawares by people considerably smaller than myself with some good technique but as I got more proficient the only people who could throw me where people of my size or not much under as I could anticipate other people's moves and block or counter them effectively.
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Post by wtf on Apr 20, 2006 8:32:11 GMT -5
My overall point, respectfully, was:
What may not work in Judo (such as the "weaker" higher dan grade being defeated by a lower ranked but "stronger" dan), can be addressed with techniques from other martial arts which have been proven to address the strength descrimination. To use the martial arts as toolbox analogy: while a practitioner may be a hammer, that doesn't mean everything is a nail.
As for totally *equal* oppenents in terms of skill, but there is a strength descrimination...that's an entirely different discussion. Your initial post with your Judo experience was an arguement for strength over skill, despite the "weaker" opponents higher dan grade.
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Mig
Sense Offender
Posts: 7
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Post by Mig on Apr 20, 2006 17:04:47 GMT -5
Right, I see what you're getting at. I didn't mean for my initial post to appear as black and white as that. Having not had experience in other martial arts (save tae know do, briefly) I'm not really in any position to argue your point. However, perhaps stretching my analogy by saying that technique in Judo will almost always beat strength, on the flipside, it's much more difficult for a weaker person to throw their stronger opponent if their technique is not spot on.
Judo does address the strength discrimination factor as what the entire art boils down to is taking somebody from a strong position (feet firmly planted on the floor, solid position) to an unbalanced and weak position (on their tiptoes, leaning forward or back). The same applies to the groundwork involved.
We also seem to have been lured into the typical gender war that follows this type of discussion. Women would make good clerics, they're fast and flexible and would not need strength to perform the gunkatas (there's the other argument of the hand to hand pistol whipping but, regardless of who's swinging them, a firearm butt to the face is still gonna hurt)
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Post by wtf on Apr 21, 2006 9:42:08 GMT -5
No gender war here Mig. I've been enjoying our discussion.
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