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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jul 6, 2005 11:26:23 GMT -5
It's always down to conditioning, social or otherwise. Times are changing yes, which is a great thing but change has the potential for going too far as well. I think a Balance would be nice but that makes me an idealist.
It's not who you are underneath that defines you, it's what you do.
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Post by BlackDragon on Jul 7, 2005 4:15:15 GMT -5
I think a Balance would be nice but that makes me an idealist. It's not who you are underneath that defines you, it's what you do. I couldn't agree more!! Balance is what we need in our sociaty, and not only in this issue!
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 9, 2005 3:18:22 GMT -5
Not meaning t offend anyone but its a fact that men are naturally stronger. Some males don't live up to the definition of the word Man though in some cases...
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Xaio
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Post by Xaio on Aug 9, 2005 3:27:52 GMT -5
Are we talking physically, mentally, or emotionally?
Also, though you'd need to be highly trained, gun kata (as seen in EQ) probably wouldn't require strength so much as dexterity I would have imagined.
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 9, 2005 3:35:36 GMT -5
Are we talking physically, mentally, or emotionally? Also, though you'd need to be highly trained, gun kata (as seen in EQ) probably wouldn't require strength so much as dexterity I would have imagined. How could it not require strength?
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Xaio
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Mood is for cattle, or for making love; not for fighting
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Post by Xaio on Aug 9, 2005 3:39:44 GMT -5
The operative words there were "so much as". Ie. in simpler terms, dexterity would be more important than strength.
Ok: Strength would be required in the wrists, to hold the gun steady and prevent recoil. But if you think about it, and think about Preston's manouvers, not a great deal of strength was required (I'm not referring to the katana fights here, simply the gun kata). Most of it was moving out of the way of bullets (speed/dexterity) and, if you want to put it very simply and crudely (which I do, having just woken up), pointing the gun in the right direction - primarily dexterity, then a bit of strength to hold the gun/s steady.
Strength would be a factor, I'm not disputing that. I'm just pointing out that dexterity would probably actually be more important... and women are often more dexterous than men.
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 9, 2005 3:56:34 GMT -5
The operative words there were "so much as". IE. in simpler terms, dexterity would be more important than strength. OK: Strength would be required in the wrists, to hold the gun steady and prevent recoil. But if you think about it, and think about Preston's maneuvers, not a great deal of strength was required (I'm not referring to the katana fights here, simply the gun Kata). Most of it was moving out of the way of bullets (speed/dexterity) and, if you want to put it very simply and crudely (which I do, having just woken up), pointing the gun in the right direction - primarily dexterity, then a bit of strength to hold the gun/s steady. Strength would be a factor, I'm not disputing that. I'm just pointing out that dexterity would probably actually be more important... and women are often more dexterous than men. Not if they goto McDonald's. ;D I still highly doubt they could be clerics though. Maybe if they were really butch I dunno. Though in that kinda society being butch would be being a good citizen lol.
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Xaio
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Mood is for cattle, or for making love; not for fighting
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Post by Xaio on Aug 9, 2005 4:03:00 GMT -5
True... then again, consider some of the men who go to McDonald's Uh... to be perfectly honest, I reckon any female cleric would be just as good as the male ones, better in some cases. And they wouldn't have to be butch... and I'm not sure that being butch *would* be being a good citizen. But anyway.
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 9, 2005 4:08:39 GMT -5
True... then again, consider some of the men who go to McDonald's Uh... to be perfectly honest, I reckon any female cleric would be just as good as the male ones, better in some cases. And they wouldn't have to be butch... and I'm not sure that being butch *would* be being a good citizen. But anyway. I ment butch as in no long hair and such...And no female type clothes. Basicly acting like a guy would.
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Post by JenGe on Aug 9, 2005 10:20:17 GMT -5
Not meaning t offend anyone but its a fact that men are naturally stronger... A firearm is the great equalizer. ;D The problem though would most women actually pull the trigger...
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Post by wtf on Aug 9, 2005 10:39:42 GMT -5
Not meaning t offend anyone but its a fact that men are naturally stronger. Some males don't live up to the definition of the word Man though in some cases... By men being naturally physically stronger, then I can give you this: Two equally trained people one male and one female, the *odds* are that the male would win in terms of overpowering the other. BUT things are never black and white. There is *luck*, timing, speed, dexterity, and intelligence/cleverness. And the scenario. A back alley brawl is different than a suprise attack/stalker which is different from a tournament. And the reality is also that not everyone is up to snuff in strength, training, and all of the above. So I don't think your blanket statement is definitive towards the arguement. The fact that women do not show up as clerics in the film is most likely a *societal* statement instead of actual ability. Especially since gunkata, being firearm based lends itself to speed and accuracy.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Aug 9, 2005 12:17:24 GMT -5
A blanket statement is never definitive in any scenario.
I've several pieces of fiction where female Clerics exist and you know what, I'm rather glad I don't fit in the concept of Man, Man, because most people like that I have met on or off line are fucking asshole idiots.
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Post by frivolity on Aug 9, 2005 12:49:51 GMT -5
A blanket statement is never definitive in any scenario. I've several pieces of fiction where female Clerics exist and you know what, I'm rather glad I don't fit in the concept of Man, Man, because most people like that I have met on or off line are fucking asshole idiots. Yeah! Tara's great
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Aug 9, 2005 13:05:24 GMT -5
*smiles* Thanks friv
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 9, 2005 16:49:25 GMT -5
A blanket statement is never definitive in any scenario. I've several pieces of fiction where female Clerics exist and you know what, I'm rather glad I don't fit in the concept of Man, Man, because most people like that I have met on or off line are fucking asshole idiots. Lol! that reminds me of someone my sister doesn't like.
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Xaio
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Post by Xaio on Aug 9, 2005 22:05:43 GMT -5
Very nicely said Hm... *considers JenGe's question* I'd imagine that the conditioning of the Grammaton cleric's would include some kind of training along those lines, to make sure they *are* ruthless/cold/hard (whatever you want to call it) enough to pull the trigger. And personally, as far as martial arts go: So far, 90% of the female fighters I've met in martial arts I respect more as fighters than men, because often, when they apply themselves', they're better. Don't rule out females in fighting, or you'll be making a very big mistake. And come to think of it, I know more females who do martial arts than males. For a long time (and often still) at least 50% of the students coming to my dojo are females, often more. And believe me, they're good. Another reason for there being no female clerics in the film, as I think someone said, was that perhaps Wimmer simply didn't have time in the film, and didn't want to introduce another (possibly quite big) issue which he couldn't satisfactorily deal with. Anyway, my 2 pence
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 9, 2005 23:52:12 GMT -5
Very nicely said Hm... *considers JenGe's question* I'd imagine that the conditioning of the Grammaton cleric's would include some kind of training along those lines, to make sure they *are* ruthless/cold/hard (whatever you want to call it) enough to pull the trigger. And personally, as far as martial arts go: So far, 90% of the female fighters I've met in martial arts I respect more as fighters than men, because often, when they apply themselves', they're better. Don't rule out females in fighting, or you'll be making a very big mistake. And come to think of it, I know more females who do martial arts than males. For a long time (and often still) at least 50% of the students coming to my dojo are females, often more. And believe me, they're good. Another reason for there being no female clerics in the film, as I think someone said, was that perhaps Wimmer simply didn't have time in the film, and didn't want to introduce another (possibly quite big) issue which he couldn't satisfactorily deal with. Anyway, my 2 pence I kinda think if a dude gets good enough he can pwn any female. Only if he had to though like if she was trying to kill him or something.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Aug 10, 2005 5:47:49 GMT -5
Xaio: If you haven't, read, the Martial Solution.
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Xaio
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Post by Xaio on Aug 10, 2005 6:14:18 GMT -5
Ah... no. The head instructor of the Karate Union of Australia is a female. She could kick pretty much anyone.
I'd put any one of my female students against a guy trained to the same level. And expect them to win.
Tell me, have you ever fought a female?
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Xaio
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Post by Xaio on Aug 10, 2005 6:16:00 GMT -5
Hm. The name rings a bell. Is it a book, or article online? Or other?
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Aug 10, 2005 12:16:31 GMT -5
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Xaio
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Posts: 71
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Post by Xaio on Aug 10, 2005 18:30:57 GMT -5
Ah ha! Yes, I have read that, thank you Strangely enough, it didn't come on google when I tried... ah well. And... just reread V. good article
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 11, 2005 0:19:14 GMT -5
Ah... no. The head instructor of the Karate Union of Australia is a female. She could kick pretty much anyone. I'd put any one of my female students against a guy trained to the same level. And expect them to win. Tell me, have you ever fought a female? Ya' know I don't see the Shaolin monks training hardly any females if any...Those guys are basically the real-life clerics but they don't use guns.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Aug 11, 2005 5:16:59 GMT -5
Ah ha! Yes, I have read that, thank you Strangely enough, it didn't come on google when I tried... ah well. And... just reread V. good article Thanks, it was interesting to write.
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Xaio
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Mood is for cattle, or for making love; not for fighting
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Post by Xaio on Aug 11, 2005 7:08:11 GMT -5
Just for the record: Shaolin monks *do* train females. I think you'll find that many people go the the Shaolin temple to be trained, and of them a fair percentage are females. Check your facts.
The reason that historically they didn't train females is more because of prejudice against females in Asian society than anything to do with female fighting ability.
And you still haven't answered my question: have you ever fought a female?
I repeat: I wouldn't underestimate females.
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 11, 2005 19:30:57 GMT -5
Just for the record: Shaolin monks *do* train females. I think you'll find that many people go the the Shaolin temple to be trained, and of them a fair percentage are females. Check your facts. The reason that historically they didn't train females is more because of prejudice against females in Asian society than anything to do with female fighting ability. And you still haven't answered my question: have you ever fought a female? I repeat: I wouldn't underestimate females. Well to answer your question no. Infact I'm well mannered when it comes to not hitting females also lol, I remember playing tag with a girl, and she told me I was just tapping her and not actually tagging.
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Xaio
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Post by Xaio on Aug 12, 2005 1:28:17 GMT -5
Ah. That would explain your prejudice then. Sometime, I suggest you try sparring a female at a dojo, or somewhere... You'll learn a lot
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Post by Richard Hannah on Aug 12, 2005 1:32:37 GMT -5
Ah. That would explain your prejudice then. Sometime, I suggest you try sparring a female at a dojo, or somewhere... You'll learn a lot Sounds like a plan lol.
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Post by ClericalError on Oct 15, 2005 8:36:26 GMT -5
Okay. Gender issues. Yarr. Dead topic somewhat, but I feel a need to contribute.
First of all, I'm female and I'm able to fence, shoot and fight to a good level of competence. Shooting especially. Having lived in South Africa, where gun culture is big, I'm able to empty a .45's clip, reload and empty another one into the head of a human-shaped target in about fifteen seconds. Hard with a .45 because the recoil throws your aim off with each shot. Don't know many other men who can do anything similar, but I have a lot of female friends who own a large amount of people at paintball or LaserTag.
Next, it's a fact that women are biologically stronger than men. I think with all the killing Clerics get a larger Prozium dose than most of the Librian population. Even with the drugged-up-to-the-gills factor, they'd be more prone to their Prozium shot wearing off before it's time to take their next interval.
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Post by Observer on Oct 15, 2005 10:03:42 GMT -5
Ah... on the shooting issue, I'd like to discretely point out the current IPSC champion at World Shoot XIV is a man named Rob Leatham who also uses a .45 in several "classes" of shooting. Mr. Leatham has set a number of world records in several practical/ defensive shooting disciplines. www.robleatham.com/aarshootingresume.htm"Next, it's a fact that women are biologically stronger than men." It is? Would you please link some online support for this statement, Clerical Error? I'm asking because, you see, I found a contradictory study in the online Journal of Applied Physiology which found that men have greater skeletal muscle mass than women. jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/1/81Unless you are asserting women are stronger than men providing the data is adjusted to reflect the fact that men are generally larger, physically, than women. If that's what you mean, regrettably, I've found a study which contradicts that as well. www.tufts.edu/~gdallal/lsmeans1.htm During an interview discussing women's capabilities in a combat situation two Australian experts on fitness raised a number of interesting points on the physical differences between men and women in terms of strength and physical performance in combat situations. Both agreed that men are usually stronger than women, when they engage in the same training. www.goamazing.com/content.asp?id=833 This is borne out by the current world records by weight class posted by the International Weight Lifting Federation,. www.iwf.net/wrec/world.html I'm sure you can begin to see why some support for your statement would be extremely helpful.
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