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Post by Giusy on Aug 17, 2003 15:12:44 GMT -5
..... I noticed those diffrent "T" symbols as well and was wondering whether there was some meaning behind it or Wimmer simply missed this detail?? After buying the DVD.... go to the "Special Features" section... you will find the Director's commentary section where he explains about the 2 different "T".... He says that the "T" on the injector was what he would they look like.... but then the other "T" on the flags let them look like a swastika.
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 17, 2003 21:31:41 GMT -5
Umh... If that was true, how can you explain Preston's answer (when DuPong asked him what did he feel about his wife's death) "I didn't feel nothing!"? If he was feeling something, he should have told him.... I don't know... sorrow.... or maybe loss...... or some other "low" feelings. As JenGe has mentioned, Prozium only suppresses the highs and lows of emotions. Automatic responses, such as physical pain are not blocked. I used to be on Paxil for a while, and what that did was to stabilize my emotions. I neither felt jovial nor depressed. I still joked, laughed and such, but for the most part I was just "there". It helped me to maintain focus and stay level-headed. Prozium is just Paxil on steroids. Things that would normally elicit an emotional response are seen as a "casual" occurance, not meriting attention for any length of time. Consider all the violence we see today on TV. It's to the point that we don't even flinch when we hear of a murder in another state or even in another part of town. Prozium would be the equivalent of taking all of that and make is seem commonplace. Forgive me if I'm rambling. Just trying to give different angles on Prozium...
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Post by MrsPreston on Aug 18, 2003 8:57:08 GMT -5
Umh... If that was true, how can you explain Preston's answer (when DuPong asked him what did he feel about his wife's death) "I didn't feel nothing!"? If he was feeling something, he should have told him.... I don't know... sorrow.... or maybe loss...... or some other "low" feelings. Preston would not own to feeling as he would be killed - plus at this point he is still consciously unaware of his feelings because of the Prozium
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Post by JenGe on Aug 18, 2003 8:59:42 GMT -5
As JenGe has mentioned, Prozium only suppresses the highs and lows of emotions. Automatic responses, such as physical pain are not blocked. I used to be on Paxil for a while, and what that did was to stabilize my emotions. I neither felt jovial nor depressed. ... I've taken St. John's Wart and I was surprised how it not only evened out my depression but also my highs. The peaks and valleys of both were less severe. I think those of us who have taken these type of meds are more able to understand Wimmer's take on Prozium than those who haven't. Wimmer also stated on the DVD that the film is about "numbness." This can actually be self induced as well...cutting off people and the world around us.
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Post by Agi on Aug 18, 2003 10:35:23 GMT -5
After buying the DVD.... go to the "Special Features" section... you will find the Director's commentary section where he explains about the 2 different "T".... He says that the "T" on the injector was what he would they look like.... but then the other "T" on the flags let them look like a swastika. Hey, thanks Giusy I guess I need to wait till November to buy my copy
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Post by Giusy on Aug 18, 2003 11:09:33 GMT -5
As JenGe has mentioned, Prozium only suppresses the highs and lows of emotions. Automatic responses, such as physical pain are not blocked. I used to be on Paxil for a while, and what that did was to stabilize my emotions. I neither felt jovial nor depressed. I still joked, laughed and such, but for the most part I was just "there". It helped me to maintain focus and stay level-headed. Prozium is just Paxil on steroids. Things that would normally elicit an emotional response are seen as a "casual" occurance, not meriting attention for any length of time. Consider all the violence we see today on TV. It's to the point that we don't even flinch when we hear of a murder in another state or even in another part of town. Prozium would be the equivalent of taking all of that and make is seem commonplace. Forgive me if I'm rambling. Just trying to give different angles on Prozium... Thanks Cleric Baltaak for your explanation..... It helped to solve my doubts.
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Post by Giusy on Aug 18, 2003 11:13:32 GMT -5
Hey, thanks Giusy I guess I need to wait till November to buy my copy You are welcome! Like you, I'm enjoing this group and the inquiries so much.
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Post by Trinity on Aug 18, 2003 18:53:15 GMT -5
This would explain how Jurgen knew that he had Mary's red ribbon in his pocket..!! ;D Yes, exactly! ;D
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Post by Trinity on Aug 18, 2003 18:54:59 GMT -5
Umh... If that was true, how can you explain Preston's answer (when DuPong asked him what did he feel about his wife's death) "I didn't feel nothing!"? If he was feeling something, he should have told him.... I don't know... sorrow.... or maybe loss...... or some other "low" feelings. Preston wouldn't want to say that to DuPont, for fear of punishment.
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Post by Giusy on Aug 19, 2003 7:08:12 GMT -5
Hi everyone.... I have another (silly??) question.... (maybe I should stop watching it over and over... ;D ;D) Well... that is it.... After seing Jurgen, Preston was "escorted" to the Grammaton Palace to see Dupont..... and there Dupont gave his explicit demostration that he was feeling..... (do you remember his burst of rage while saying "Are you playing with me Cleric?") Well.... Why Preston didn't suspect, at that moment, Dupont was feeling?.... Or maybe he did? It seems so obvious!..... Maybe he was more concerned about his safety and his worries to be discovered?
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 19, 2003 7:23:57 GMT -5
Outbursts of those kinds might be simply considered a tactic to see if there's a startled/fearful response, which would have indicated to Dupont that Preston was "emotional"...
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Post by Giusy on Aug 19, 2003 7:38:25 GMT -5
Outbursts of those kinds might be simply considered a tactic to see if there's a startled/fearful response, which would have indicated to Dupont that Preston was "emotional"... A trick, right?.... Uhm...well, it seems likely.... even if I think Preston was way too engrossed in his thoughts to notice that!
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Post by JenGe on Aug 19, 2003 9:19:30 GMT -5
A trick, right?.... Uhm...well, it seems likely.... even if I think Preston was way too engrossed in his thoughts to notice that! Even if Preston did notice it, what is he going to do about it?? Say something?? Report it to Brandt?? Doesn't Wimmer say something on the commentary that the surest way to get "shot" is to point out something such as this?? Hypocritical leaders have been a problem throughout history. How many people in reality try to stand up to them and what often happens when they do??
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 19, 2003 10:40:34 GMT -5
A trick, right?.... Uhm...well, it seems likely.... even if I think Preston was way too engrossed in his thoughts to notice that! I don't think he was engrossed in his thoughts. Situations like that bring one singular thought to the forefront; Survival! Since he is rather new at emotions, it doesn't take much to conceal them. It's when he starts getting more of a grasp on them that they become difficult...
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Post by Giusy on Aug 19, 2003 14:04:06 GMT -5
Even if Preston did notice it, what is he going to do about it?? Say something?? Report it to Brandt?? Doesn't Wimmer say something on the commentary that the surest way to get "shot" is to point out something such as this??...... Absolutely not!! I don't think Preston was so stupid to point it out...... but, maybe, to know that even Dupont was feeling should have alerted him..... Somehow, that should have allowed Preston to see Dupont in a different point of view.... more suspicious...
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Post by Trinity on Aug 19, 2003 14:23:40 GMT -5
Yes, I think Preston is aware that something's up at this point. I believe this is the scene after he is picked up in the alleyway by the guards, and there is great tension in the scene. Preston knows he is under suspicion, and only breathes a sigh of relief when DuPont asks him how he can expect to catch the traitor if all he does is attempt. Preston replies, "You are 100% right, Sir." and is visibly relieved...lump in throat. So, he wouldn't dare question DuPont's obvious display of emotion. And JenGe is so right about hypocritical leaders...
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Post by JenGe on Aug 19, 2003 18:43:33 GMT -5
And JenGe is so right about hypocritical leaders... The problem is...I've personally known a few. Getting in their face only makes it worse. I know...
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Post by DeadCleric on Aug 19, 2003 20:38:13 GMT -5
this is my 1st post
here's some stuff i noticed
Preston's wife looks like mona lisa, so the line "burn it" is kind of a parralell of when his wife was incinerated and he did nothing, by doing nothing it is like he said "burn it" to his own wife.
Partridge's wife (forget her name) also looks like Prestons wife which is why he is so eager to save her where he let his wife die. Maybe when he watching the footage of his wife's sentencing he was reminded of his true emotions inside him and this emotion is brought though all of a sudden and he feels the need to do somthing where before he just let his wife die.
The way Brandts face is cut off is good as he showed emotion for the whole film, and emotion is shown through the face.
Jurgen can be seen in the crowds at the start of the film listening to Father.
Also in that corridor scene at the end Preston has balancing clips in his guns before he loads the ones on the floor.
Dupont just before he stomps his hand ("are you playing with me...") feels the desk reminicent of Preston's feeling the hand rail. Maybe this is a sign of feeling, can anyone else be seen doing this?
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Post by Dahzek on Aug 20, 2003 4:28:06 GMT -5
Dupont just before he stomps his hand ("are you playing with me...") feels the desk reminicent of Preston's feeling the hand rail. Maybe this is a sign of feeling, can anyone else be seen doing this? Yes...or something like it at least. Brandt...before pulling the Katana out (in the final fight scene saying: "Mind the uniform Cleric..."), is also stroking (feeling) the Katana sheath. Peace Dazhek
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 20, 2003 7:24:19 GMT -5
this is my 1st post The way Brandts face is cut off is good as he showed emotion for the whole film, and emotion is shown through the face. Welcome, DeadCleric... Excellent observation about cutting off the face After his face is cut off, it's now devoid of emotion...
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Post by JenGe on Aug 20, 2003 10:56:11 GMT -5
I mentioned Earlier on this thread about the "atlas" statue looking right at Preston while he's on his knees. Since I finished 24 more of Imylover's screen caps and that one is among the set I thought I would post it... (Thanks again Imylover for the images!!!)
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 20, 2003 12:31:06 GMT -5
I mentioned Earlier on this thread about the "atlas" statue looking right at Preston while he's on his knees. Since I finished 24 more of Imylover's screen caps and that one is among the set I thought I would post it... (Thanks again Imylover for the images!!!) An excellent parallel, JenGe One minor difference in them is that Atlas was punished for striking against Zeus. Preston is punishing himself emotionally, although Dupont could be considered Zeus in the same perspective as Preston striking out against Libria (Olympus). But the future of the world resting on Preston's shoulder was his burden alone...
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Post by Trinity on Aug 20, 2003 13:01:04 GMT -5
this is my 1st post Preston's wife looks like mona lisa, so the line "burn it" is kind of a parralell of when his wife was incinerated and he did nothing, by doing nothing it is like he said "burn it" to his own wife. Welcome, DeadCleric! This is a GREAT observation. I don't think this has been mentioned on any of the boards before. Thanks! ;D
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Post by Trinity on Aug 20, 2003 14:17:02 GMT -5
Another thing to note is that when DuPont is asking Preston about his family, Preston replies that he has a boy and a girl, and that the boy's in the monastery, training to become a cleric. He doesn't say this about his daughter. This leads me to believe that a female becoming a cleric is not an option. However, it may mean that the girl is still too young to train, but I don't think so.
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 20, 2003 19:20:18 GMT -5
Another thing to note is that when DuPont is asking Preston about his family, Preston replies that he has a boy and a girl, and that the boy's in the monastery, training to become a cleric. He doesn't say this about his daughter. This leads me to believe that a female becoming a cleric is not an option. However, it may mean that the girl is still too young to train, but I don't think so. Awesome point! I'm glad this thread has taken on a life of its own. I can't wait to watch the movie again. Each time, it's getting more and more clearer. Great post, Trinity ;D
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Post by JenGe on Aug 21, 2003 7:00:37 GMT -5
An excellent parallel, JenGe One minor difference in them is that Atlas was punished for striking against Zeus. Preston is punishing himself emotionally, although Dupont could be considered Zeus in the same perspective as Preston striking out against Libria (Olympus). But the future of the world resting on Preston's shoulder was his burden alone... Hey I forgot all about that until you pointed it out!! I need to go pull out my mythology books again and read that tale. Thanks!!
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Post by Trinity on Aug 21, 2003 14:39:26 GMT -5
Awesome point! I'm glad this thread has taken on a life of its own. I can't wait to watch the movie again. Each time, it's getting more and more clearer. Great post, Trinity ;D Thanks so much, Grammaton Cleric Baltaak!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 21, 2003 21:13:39 GMT -5
Thanks so much, Grammaton Cleric Baltaak!!! ;D ;D ;D You noticed ;D I'm hoping that JenGe might make a new title Grammaton Cleric, First Class That would rock!!!!
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Post by JenGe on Aug 22, 2003 6:38:53 GMT -5
You noticed ;D I'm hoping that JenGe might make a new title Grammaton Cleric, First Class That would rock!!!! What do you think level five is?? ;D
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 22, 2003 7:55:25 GMT -5
What do you think level five is?? ;D Yours is the only level 5 that I've seen, and it says Evidentiary Storage Officer
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