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Post by TrustKill on Jan 6, 2004 12:29:55 GMT -5
...you only get seven rounds per magazine... not nearly enough devestating potential in my opinion.
-TrustKill-
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 6, 2004 13:22:43 GMT -5
true, but im merely stating for training and development purposes. An automatic pistol in reality is not possible
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Post by Rymel on Jan 6, 2004 21:30:36 GMT -5
i thought they do make machine pistols. doesn't the beretta 93R have an automatic setting?
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 6, 2004 21:58:19 GMT -5
yes it is, im talking about legally owning one though
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Post by Rymel on Jan 6, 2004 22:13:29 GMT -5
it's funny but i think it's easier for me to obtain one illegally than to go through the actual process of legally owning one. not that i'm going to. just saying.
did the 93R have a single-sided selector or double?
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 1:39:56 GMT -5
im not too sure, its a rare weapon, ive never seen one or held one for that matter. ill find out for you
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Post by Rymel on Jan 7, 2004 3:21:04 GMT -5
really? i thought 93Rs were semi-common. what's different between that and a 92, and can a 92 be modified to a 93?
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 10:57:58 GMT -5
in the civillian sector 93's are not commonly found. being that especially here in NY, you can not own a "machine pistol" glock makes one as well but you can only order it with a military or police authorization. A 92 is completely different inside, the barrel, the cocker, etc. i suppose with the right parts you could convert it to a 93 but i've never heard of anyone doing that.Competition wise, nobody uses machine pistols for obvious reasons. side note, i've got a chart im almost done with for footwork for the gun kata, ill let you know when its done
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Post by Rymel on Jan 7, 2004 11:05:46 GMT -5
hrm, didn't they make a 92 super with full auto selector? wasn't it used for robocop? or was that the 93?
and ooh, footwork. forgot completely about actually writing the movements out. i'll have to work on that. can't wait to see yours man!
another gun question: everyone keeps referring to the cleric's gun mods as a barrel weight molded to the barrel extension/compensator. do they manufacture anything like that commercially? can we get that made by a gunsmith? is it really just a compensator, or does the extra inch or two increase accuracy? are the 92's selector switches ambidextrous or right hand shooter only? 93?
trustkill in light of the compensator i don't think a gun sheath is really necessary. due to the increase barrel length a grabbing of the barrel is unlikely and even if they did it wouldn't be a good enough grip to prevent firing since they'd probly grab the compensator as well. but i'll still keep an eye out on possible ways to sheath the barrel. cleric enemies what do you think?
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 11:15:12 GMT -5
which selector switches are you referring to? the fireing mode? if so those were added for the movie props. as far as the compensator, you have to remember that those in the movie served no purpose other than making the weapon look really cool. the real function of a compensator is to disperse the recoil and in some cases add some "weight" in the front of the weapon to help with sighting. You can get compensators custom made by most of the major manufacturers. as far as a sheath goes, i don't think it would be needed. some checkering on the front of the weapon maybe . the likelyhood of someone attempting to grab the front of a pistol in combat is very low. i think i might be able to post at least a description of my footwork breakdown by today sometime
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Post by Rymel on Jan 7, 2004 11:34:09 GMT -5
i was referring to the safety, but now that you mention it...do they even make handguns with selectable fire? i realize most of the mods were done for film's sake but i guess i wanna make our chosen weapons as close as possible for a bit of an homage to our inspiration. i was kinda wondering about 4-way compensators though. if they were even worth doing and if it had any bad side effects. i figured if it was 4-way the gun would be more centered for when the gun is not exactly aimed straight-armed. so if the compensator is the barrel weight, what's it molded to beneath the barrel? i didn't know manufacturers made custom compensators though. that's good to know. the sheath wasn't for the user to grip the gun better, it was to prevent the possibility of grabbing the gun so it wouldn't be able to fire. sure it's an unlikely possibility, but you know, auchom's razor (sp?), or something. but even if we didn't have it, i'm sure we can counter with a nice smack upside the head with the other gun footwork by today? even better!
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 12:10:36 GMT -5
yeah im working on as we speak....
the attacker grabbing the gun is something that should be incoportated in the forms itself, so that we can prevent such an event.
the kind of weapons we use will fall into place when the forms are structured.
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 7, 2004 13:01:43 GMT -5
from waayyy up there...
there is a drop in device for beretta 92's and glock pistols, but transforming a 92 into a 93 beretta is almost impossible. the frame dimensions are a lot different. especially in the handle area. the 93R is a lot thicker. also, the slide and the rails it runs on are more reinforced to keep the legendary beretta slide breakage from occuring.
-some of the old beretta 92 slides would break right at the ejector port seams and the back portion would fly off the gun, sometimes hitting its user in the face.
-one of my friends, who is almost as avid about gun trivia as me, said that there are only 5 beretta 93R's out in civilian ownership in the US. that number seems a bit low, but probably isnt. they werent used for all that long in military service i dont believe.
-TrustKill-
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 13:30:09 GMT -5
you are correct indeed, i don't think the military really found a good application or a need for such a weapon.
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 7, 2004 13:45:38 GMT -5
originally it was designed as a PDW (personal defense weapon) with military personell in mind who had no need nor space for a full assault rifle but also needed more firepower than a semi-auto pistol. tanker crews, field medics, MP's stuff like that... but it didnt catch on since the MP5K came out for basically the same purpose and the M-4 can also be adjusted down to PDW size. besides... Heckler & Kock now has a weapons specifically for PDW stuff called the mp-7. it is pure badass. partially based on the SOCOM pistol frame, partially based on MP-5 technology and G-36 technology, it fires 4.6mm high velocity ammunition similar to the ammo for FN p90's but its a lot faster and penetrates body armor better and has better range/velocity.
-TrustKill-
-glock's design is similar, though it doesnt share a 3 rd burst function.
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 14:35:26 GMT -5
wow, now i know
thanks!
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 7, 2004 14:41:53 GMT -5
hehe, i tend to cram my head with useless weaponry history and knowledge. its sort of a hobby/boredom dissipater. sorry if i ramble on, sometimes it just pours out.
-trustkill-
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Post by ckycleric on Jan 7, 2004 15:28:32 GMT -5
If you wanna learn the Gun Kata then i suggest you look up ancient chinese kata dancing because thats probly the only way any of u people can learn it. You can actually get lessions for it.
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 7, 2004 15:41:10 GMT -5
yeah... a couple of us have back grounds in martial arts, CKY... we are working on developing a system from the ground up.
- i believe enemies is working on the footing placement as we speak... err... type... err, whatever...
-TrustKill-
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 7, 2004 15:56:35 GMT -5
thats right i am, ill try to have a general description up later today/tonite
im basing mine on my expirence with iado/kendo.
for now, just basic foot posistions for different things
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Post by Rymel on Jan 7, 2004 18:56:27 GMT -5
If you wanna learn the Gun Kata then i suggest you look up ancient chinese kata dancing because thats probly the only way any of u people can learn it. You can actually get lessions for it. wow, do you READ the threads you post in, or do you just go to the end? you did this in the "is gun kata original?" thread too, and again there's about 3 pages talking about referring to martial arts forms already. so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE RTFM. anyways...that's a LOT of info trustkill, thanks for filling me in on the 93R. sucks that it never caught on to its target demographic, but shouldn't that mean more available to the private sector? and i'm gonna have to look up the MP-7, i didn't know they made that. and the G36....mmm...cutting edge technology... hey enemies, i think preston's sword practice session was kendo, can you confirm? and though i doubt it, do they ever teach anything about holding the sword any way but up? preston's grip seems more towards a defensive, reserved "knife fighter" stance. this isn't to say it's not deadly though.
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 8, 2004 0:17:14 GMT -5
the only thing about that session that resembled kendo was the head gear brandt was wearing. those bokken (wooden swords) were custom built for the movie. Preston is using a style of under hand sword fighting used and developed by a master japanese swordsman who was blind. Brandt is using a crude ken-jitsu style he probably was shown the basics the day before shooting. The underhand style is very rarely taught. but it is a real style. Its very hard to do correctly. I know i was goin to try and post my footwork guidelines today but i got held up a work then went to band practice and just got home its 12midnite where i am, so i have to hit the hay, i;ll def post that tomorrow thought
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 8, 2004 5:24:04 GMT -5
I sense a disturbance...as if millions of...
I shall cancel all future curries for your Lordship.
The Wolftracker senses the makings of a Troll perhaps, we shall see. Meanwhile, don't get put off your topic by someone who thinks that they know everything?
There's an old saying: Those who claim to know everything, really piss off those of us who do ;D
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 8, 2004 13:34:19 GMT -5
who are you referring to?
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 8, 2004 14:29:08 GMT -5
me, i think... but i dont care. you are more than willing to check up on my facts if you are so skeptical. hehe.
-as for getting off topic... yeah i did ::gasp!::, but it got right back on, so relax. besides, real weapon discussion has been part of this thread since the beginning.
-trustkill-
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 8, 2004 14:43:26 GMT -5
i thought he was referring to me... i dont' know anyways ill have the first footwork chart to post later
im doing in in photoshop as i type this...
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 8, 2004 14:57:33 GMT -5
sweet. what sort of stuff will be included on the foot chart? indulge me w/ some details, or should i wait to see it?
-trustKill-
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 8, 2004 15:11:03 GMT -5
**please note; i am by no means an accredited martial arts instructor; the series of info i will be posting are for recreational purposes only, and in no way should anyone attempt any of the following with any kind of live fire******* www.aloveforenemies.com/gunkata1.jpgthere is chart #1 this is just to orient you to the following charts which will be more movement oriented
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Post by Cleric Enemies on Jan 8, 2004 15:38:42 GMT -5
** PLEASE NOTE; i am by no means an accredited martial arts instructor; the series of info i will be posting are for recreational purposes only, and in no way should anyone attempt any of the following with any kind of live fire******* part two: combat ready footwork stance aloveforenemies.com/gunkata2.jpgas seen in this illustration from gunkatta.com www.gunkatta.com/images/kata/kata2.jpg
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 8, 2004 16:07:56 GMT -5
so the same stance shown in the 3d illustration is to be used as the starting position in combination w/ Chart #2? sounds good so far.
-want me to help set up some scenarios for which to develop movements? like... take the chart #2 and put spot designations for assailants at different points. i can try to define which lines would be the most efficient as you move each hand to each enemy and the shortest distance between points. does that make sense at all?
-oh well... let me know what you need me to do.
-TrustKill-
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