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Post by Rymel on Jan 4, 2004 17:40:09 GMT -5
oooh, i forgot about that. yea it takes it to a whole 'nother level when the director himself develops the art specifically for the movie, AND isn't afraid to do it himself on camera.
although with ultraviolet i'm wary of the next level of gun kata...it might turn into HK Cinema with that...*groans*
but i'm willing to just wait and see.
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Post by Guest69 on Jan 6, 2004 14:59:35 GMT -5
I read awhile ago on the IMDB forums about a film that may have inspired the Gun Kata in Equilibrium. It was Crying Freeman, starring Mark Dacascos. From what I can find, it is supposedly based on an anime series. I personally have seen neither. Has anyone that can comment on this?
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Post by pyro on Jan 6, 2004 17:16:51 GMT -5
I read awhile ago on the IMDB forums about a film that may have inspired the Gun Kata in Equilibrium. It was Crying Freeman, starring Mark Dacascos. From what I can find, it is supposedly based on an anime series. I personally have seen neither. Has anyone that can comment on this? i saw it, not too great. freeman uses one gun instead of 2 in fights, sort of resmbles gun katta but so do john woo movies like hard boiled
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 6, 2004 19:21:24 GMT -5
I read awhile ago on the IMDB forums about a film that may have inspired the Gun Kata in Equilibrium. It was Crying Freeman, starring Mark Dacascos. From what I can find, it is supposedly based on an anime series. I personally have seen neither. Has anyone that can comment on this? Crying Freeman uses guns just like any other HKA movie tends to, I have seen it, both the Live and the Anime - I see no derivation of Gun Kata from it at all.
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Post by ckycleric on Jan 6, 2004 22:29:53 GMT -5
The gun kata is sort of original in a way but it mostly took it from ancient chinese and japanese karate Kata's but still seeing someone take 50 people on while getting shot at is pretty kool.
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Post by Rymel on Jan 6, 2004 23:09:30 GMT -5
i don't wanna sound like a jerk, but there's about three pages of people saying that...to some degree or another...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 7, 2004 6:45:20 GMT -5
*grins at Rymel*
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Post by Rymel on Jan 7, 2004 7:28:45 GMT -5
what? it's true. we don't need every single person chiming in that it's-just-like-that-stuff-that-wimmer-said-he-used-for-inspiration -anyway. i mean if we wanted to get a head count of that we could've just ran a poll...i could understand saying it if you wanted to put up a bit of an argument or open up a debate or just elaborate on their opinion but...not just one sentence saying "yea, so he copied HK Cinema/martial arts." we're aware of that, and so were the last 15 people who said more or less the same thing...
yea, i've been up all night and been sleeping odd hours since saturday, so i'm moody and grumpy lately...
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Post by Darkman on Feb 4, 2004 7:51:24 GMT -5
Gun kata... I am a student of martial arts, this is my 5th year as a student. I have trainned Taekwondo and Karate for the past years. I have question for Mr. Wimmer: When you "made" the Gun Kata did you make a Kata that one can learn in real life( just the kata that we see in the first minutes of the movie) or is it just free after your own mind? Pleas reply ASP!
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 4, 2004 7:55:29 GMT -5
Like Wimmer's going to reply here...
Jen, any chance you can close this thread or drop it into the Abyss??? pretty please?
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Post by snufkin on Feb 5, 2004 9:08:04 GMT -5
The Gun Kata is a work of genius! I'm a pretty anally retentive orderly person and so it appealed to me, and it also makes for new spin on action sequences, albeit one you have to suspend you disbelief at. Though of course the first time I saw it on the big screen I was to busy enjoying myself to care!
I can't wait to see it evolve in Ultraviolet, and it's a brilliant little signature for a director, that no one else has.
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Post by TrustKill on Feb 5, 2004 9:54:14 GMT -5
*sarcasm ensues*
you know... i may be going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that gun-kata is somehow derived from chinese and japanese martial arts techniques. i dont know if anyone else has noticed this or not, but its just my observation...
-holy be-jesus! rymel just about hit the nail on the head. we could probably fill an entire forum with just the posts of people repeating these observations. i use the term observations loosely since anyone and their mother who has seen this movie know that is what gun-kata is all about.
-well said, rymel.
-TrustKill-
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Post by Rymel on Feb 5, 2004 22:28:44 GMT -5
DONT YOU KNOW ITS ALREADY BEEN DONE IN HK CINEMA THE GUNS AKIMBO IS NOT AN ORIGINAL IDEA WIMMER IS A LIAR BLAH BLAH--okay i'll shut up now...i think it's about time to relegate this to the archives...
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Post by snufkin on Feb 6, 2004 8:47:21 GMT -5
I just don't understand it when people say that the "guns akimbo" thing is stolen. That's like saying the words I'm typing right now have been stolen from the dictionary rather than being learned! The use of two pistols is just pratical and is the most logical style for the kata.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2004 8:51:23 GMT -5
Right on snuf!
2 guns akimbo isn't original at all, given the choice between 1 gun or two...I'd go for the two for instance.
Having 2 guns is a more efficient method of dealing with multiple opponents and presents more fire-arcs for the kata to be effective.
The issue has never been about both guns, it's about the actual idea of combining guns + maths + martial arts.
Which IMHO is original...gah!
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Post by Rymel on Feb 6, 2004 10:50:31 GMT -5
Right on snuf! 2 guns akimbo isn't original at all, given the choice between 1 gun or two...I'd go for the two for instance. Having 2 guns is a more efficient method of dealing with multiple opponents and presents more fire-arcs for the kata to be effective. The issue has never been about both guns, it's about the actual idea of combining guns + maths + martial arts. Which IMHO is original...gah! agreed on the akimbo dealie, but guns + math + martial arts has probably been done before. but who cares, wimmer did it better ;D this thread is done now!
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Post by JenGe on Feb 6, 2004 11:20:29 GMT -5
You don't really think that you are going to get the last word do you?? ;D
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 6, 2004 11:52:23 GMT -5
BWHAHAHAHS @ Jen...evil...
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Post by Rymel on Feb 6, 2004 13:54:17 GMT -5
*salutes* NO MA'AM!
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Post by TrustKill on Feb 9, 2004 11:10:05 GMT -5
hehe, i cant believe this discussion is still going on.
-i feel the sudden urge to tally up the amount of times people have used crying freeman and guns akimbo among all these gun kata posts, but i wont.
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Post by blaufeld on Feb 13, 2004 17:18:01 GMT -5
However, I'm not sure whether or not 'Gun-Kata' is original or not, I'm sure it was based on Kata. Kata was: A member of a class of 14th-century Japanese mercenary agents who were trained in the martial arts and hired for covert operations such as assassination and sabotage. Though, I'm not too sure the basic details on Kata, I do know that much. However, I'm pretty sure that Kata was pretty much the same as Gun-Kata; defensive and offensive wise. Though...I'm pretty sure, the samurai's used...katanas? In the movie, Kata is used in his Japanese means, that is "Form(exercise)". Gun-Kata is "Exercise with guns". BTW I've done Martial arts for quite some years, the Katas are the practice forms you do...
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Post by TrustKill on Feb 16, 2004 10:53:36 GMT -5
its been discussed...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 16, 2004 13:17:40 GMT -5
To death In many other threads, and probably bazillions of times in this one too.
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Post by TrustKill on Feb 16, 2004 13:41:48 GMT -5
EXACTLY...
-i mean, seriously. im pretty sure by this point anyone who cares to post in the gun kata forum should/will know what a kata is. if not, there are hundreds of thousands of posts from people letting us know that they know. look at one of those...
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Post by johnny moniker on Feb 16, 2004 14:25:42 GMT -5
Eveyone's focused on the "kata" part, defining it to death. What about the "gun" bit? It's quite a colloquialism for a firearm, but strictly speaking a weapon like a 92f is not a gun, it' a firearm. So, shouldn't it be called "firearm kata"? It seems strange that the monks would've gone to all that trouble with statistics and geometry only to give the martial art a slightly inappropriate name, don't you think? Perhaps I'm being a bit anal retentive here. In fact scratch everything I just wrote, and call it "Gun-do" instead. I'm way to tiered to be posting on this forum.
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Post by TrustKill on Feb 16, 2004 14:40:21 GMT -5
haha! sleepless nights? bouts w/ insomnia? might i recommend a heavy dose of bennadryl. it gets the job done. you might have weird dreams when you sleep, but you will sleep like there is no tomorrow.
-as for the alternate names, there have been a lot of discussions on this as well. since i have been here, i have heard anything from gun-fu to gun-waltz be propositioned in replacement of gun kata (since gun kata is, as we all know, a form of practicing movements). every once in a while people also suggest different names for different forms based around different weapons, to which i reply, "why does each type of weapon require a type of gun kata? cant a person just be proficient at weapons?" sometimes i think people have a problem with trying to box things in too much.
-despite all of this, in my memory, i think you are the only person so far to point out the broadness of the use of "gun" in gun kata. since it could technically be tagged onto any type of firearm, i think you could have pinned an answer for all those people wanting different names for different weapons. gun pertains to all. besides that... i was under the impression that firearm was also used as a general term for guns. maybe im wrong. seems to me, if they wanted to get technical, the way to go would be "pistol-kata" or "side-arm kata", but those dont sound as good as gun-kata.
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Post by Childe of Caine on Mar 5, 2004 5:05:56 GMT -5
I am definitly not a master at martial arts, but I do practice quite a few and have attained some skills. I'm sorry to say that such a thing would be quite unlikely. The martial art thaught to Ninjas does include some advice as to the usage of guns but nothing such as the gun-kata (it was invented long before handguns). I also think that really, developping it would be very hard because practice would be practically impossible (shooting at people is illegal in most places in the world even if you think they can dodge the bullet). However, there are a few rules in such type of combat. Stay as close as possible to your adversary and keep on moving (This makes you extremly hard to hit). In addition, if you fight many people, trained gun users are trained to avoid hitting their friends that means not shooting at you if their friend is in front or behind you. However, even if one could develop such a combat technic, it would most likely work only against trained gun users because amateurs are typically foolishly unpredictable. Childe of Caine just a "hypothetical" question - would any martial artists here be interested in extrapolating/developing a form of gun-kata based on real techniques?
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Post by rohan on Mar 6, 2004 3:56:12 GMT -5
Kurt Wimmer invented it, so its original. Now let this thread die.
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Post by Preacher on Mar 10, 2004 10:39:06 GMT -5
gun kata was indeed invented by Kurt W. but he based it on the priciple positions and forms of other martial arts and threw in some guns its as simple as that lol
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Post by randi on May 11, 2004 4:22:36 GMT -5
Roger Ebert attributes the origin of the term Gun-Kata to Nick Nunziata at CHUD.com, in case it wasn't mentioned earlier in the thread, and anyone's interested.
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