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Post by pyro on Aug 2, 2003 16:49:14 GMT -5
Hey, K3YM4K3R...I really like your name! Or, maybe they could use paint ball guns... ;D the zeus RIS would work
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Post by Trinity on Aug 2, 2003 19:14:06 GMT -5
Images of T3 flashing through my brain... ;D
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K3YM4K3R
Resistance Member
DuPont: "Is it really worth the price" Preston: "I pay it gladly"
Posts: 14
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Post by K3YM4K3R on Aug 3, 2003 6:28:26 GMT -5
scuse me for bein dumb but whats t3
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Post by JenGe on Aug 3, 2003 14:58:21 GMT -5
scuse me for bein dumb but whats t3 Sorry...Terminator 3...
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Post by Cleric Baltaak on Aug 4, 2003 7:21:57 GMT -5
It's funny that role-playing should be brought up. Interestingly enough, I've made a character with the help of my fellow GM that is following the lines of a grammaton cleric. The game we are playing is Call of Cthulhu (d20 modern). I was very original in keeping the name John Preston (why not, right?) Instead of the Beretta 9mm, I decided to go with the Desert Eagle .50 AE as the sidearms of choice. Damage was the main reason, but the gun is awesome, none the less. We are starting out at 1st level (using 3rd Ed D&D rules) so his skills are limited right now. Looking at Preston, he was probably 15th/20th level individual with the highest skills of his class. So, I have a long ways to go with my CoC cleric. I chose a detective as his class, but he has been given four feats to help boost his hand-gun mastery. All in all, it should work out quite well. After a time, we will eventually play Palladium Rifts, and conveniently enough, John Preston will probably cross over to it ;D
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Post by JenGe on Aug 4, 2003 14:17:28 GMT -5
Talking about paint guns... I caught a really fun scene from S.W.A.T. the other day. Hopefully it stays in the film!!
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Post by GunDamd on Aug 4, 2003 16:37:11 GMT -5
Yo guys, How many would love to actually have an Equilibrium game to play?
I, for one think that the abilities of the Grammaton convert beautifully into video, or RP game.
If only there were a way I could influence someone into doing it.
Hey, who's interested in actually trying to do it? I dont know about a video game, but im sure we could all put our heads together and make an RP game. The only problem I see, is that noone would want to be the GM. All those in favour say I.
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Post by JenGe on Aug 5, 2003 7:43:40 GMT -5
...but im sure we could all put our heads together and make an RP game. The only problem I see, is that noone would want to be the GM. All those in favour say I. Hey GunDamd, Have you checked out Angelus44's On-line Equilibrium RPG...http://pub219.ezboard.com/bequilibrium It might be just what you're looking for but then again maybe not...
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Post by GunDamd on Aug 7, 2003 15:52:40 GMT -5
Nah. I was thinking more of a game, than a creative writing thing.
The saddest thing, that I dont want to happen, is that one of the coolest concepts to come along in a looooong time, will be lost in the shrouds of time, because nobody ever heard about it. Are there really enough of us fans, to keep it alive. I sure as hell hope so.
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Post by cybersharkx16 on Aug 20, 2003 1:40:42 GMT -5
i would say this idea is pretty original, all u ppl are saying the same crap over and over yes its been done b4 akimbo pistols etc thats not the point. There using mathematical equations in firing its not like a john woo film, running into a bar aimlessly shooting bullets on to some poor cooks apron, birdcages, walls, and anything in the way. i think its a pretty cool lil concept using mathematical equations to aid the efficency of this art of "killing". Every shot and hit counts for maximum damage. Did you guys see the movie??? It appears to be a cool and unique idea.
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Post by Dahzek on Aug 20, 2003 4:19:58 GMT -5
If you do it using your kittens it is.
Peace
Dahzek
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Post by ActionJack on Sept 9, 2003 17:12:31 GMT -5
Have you folks been under a rock or something this style of fighting is not new... The Chinese have used it in movies for some time now... Checkout Black Mask w/Jet Li and Chow Yuen Fat movies. I admit this movie add a different favor to it but it has been done before.
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Post by Grimwall on Sept 11, 2003 7:04:18 GMT -5
Seriously, it is just a movie. All these discussions about how large clips the Grammaton handgun has and the mathematics behind Gun-Kata is NOTHING. It is not science. Kurt Wimmer just wanted to make a cool movie, I hardly doubt that he payed any consideration into logics and shit that has nothing to do with the movie itself. He did not create an alternate world or something, he just made a movie.
Gun Kata is original in a way. It takes the cliché akimbo-pistol setup, puts them in the hands of Formal Government agents and uses them as Primary weapons. Everything has been done before, but not in this fashion and combination.
To sum up : Equilibrium is based on old shit brewed and put together with a very unique style. its OWN style. So there you have it, EQ has its own style, not original features, but style.
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Post by pyro on Sept 11, 2003 17:16:52 GMT -5
To sum up : Equilibrium is based on old shit brewed and put together with a very unique style. its OWN style. So there you have it, EQ has its own style, not original features, but style. what other movies showed how to shoot a gun mathematically and mixed in martial arts?
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Post by Longinus on Sept 13, 2003 23:14:03 GMT -5
Although the look is quite different I would lke to direct your attention to the movie "Romeo + Juliet" starring Leonardo DeCaprio and Claire Danes. Although the gunplay is nowhere near the action level in Equilibrium it introduces an almost fencing-like visual use of guns that is rather interesting.
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Post by Fyl on Sept 14, 2003 1:17:24 GMT -5
Ive seen a lot of martial art films, but i've NEVER seen anything like this in a movie before.. so i think its original as far as films are concerned, and what a cool refreshing thing it is too, it works on celluloid, very well ;D..
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Post by Splynn on Sept 27, 2003 1:24:08 GMT -5
I'll try and be brief Gun-fu's descriptions sounds a hel of a lot like playing a deathmatch first person shooter. There really was a lack of martal arts in the desription. Maybe illustrations from the authors would clear this up.
Akimbo guns != gun kata. The fact that EQ used modified Berettas and most of the HK blood operas use Berettas as well as the use of two guns do not make things the same. In the typical action film, the gun is used as a gun. What do I mean? I mean that the gun is usally head still armed with the shooter sigting down the weapon. Gun Kata by comparison does not need the weilder to have his arms in any particulat position, and does not even need the shooter to sight the weapon. It is also a teachable form of combat as opposed to charicters just 'being tat good' in action movies. IT is not revolutionary, but it is evolutionary. INHO, only a western writer could have developed this idea because the for the most part, guns are looked at as the tool of the gunslinger, not the martal artist overseas.
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Post by JenGe on Sept 27, 2003 10:20:07 GMT -5
INHO, only a western writer could have developed this idea because the for the most part, guns are looked at as the tool of the gunslinger, not the martal artist overseas. I think that you have brought up an excellent point with this statement. We here in the west for the most part have had a romanticized view of firearms that often the rest of the world does not as readily share . I'm not making a judgement call about if this is bad or good but a very interesting point you bring up.
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Post by 45calibersurgery on Dec 28, 2003 20:07:53 GMT -5
Basically, the idea of of gun-kata itself is not original, but there really is nothing else quite like it. Plus, ideas being original are a pretty confusing matter. I mean, basically every opinion we come up with and every idea we get is based on everything that we have experienced in life. Books we've read, articles, movies we've seen, discussions (such as in forums). So if you want to get really nit-picky, nothing is really original. But moving on, the idea of real gun-kata intrigues me. Especially when melded with other forms of martial arts besides the strict, disciplined looking form used in eq. A relaxed form such as jeet kune do would make a interesting combination. And as for the guns, no one has to die to perfect this. While paintball is fairly good and all, airsoft would be better for this. Allow me to explain (and pimp airsoft to the masses). Airsoft is similar to paintball but very different. Airsoft started in Japan where it's illegal to own guns, so the idea started as toy guns that are realistic as possible so that gun enthusiasts in Japan could own their favorite guns. It eventually evolved, and now is the current favorite for mil-sim type of fights, as opposed to the unrealistic guns in paintball. Airsoft uses 6mm plastic pellets so there's really no harm in it. Whereas paintball hits pack a wallop like a small punch, airsoft just really, really stings. Since I don't really feel like going on too long, I just encourage you to check it out. It would be perfect for coming up with a real-life form of gun-kata.
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Post by Xenia Onatopp- Bale on Dec 29, 2003 8:21:00 GMT -5
I agree with Fishback's opinion.
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 11:42:37 GMT -5
gun kata is more closely related to a martial arts form than in any other "gun fight" movie i have ever seen. sure the double-fisted pistol fighting has been used time and time again, but never executed in such a professional manner. mainly you see people jumping and sliding across tables a la desperado or last man standing, but you never see closely calculated movements. -correct me if im wrong, but weapons fighting in martial arts is designed to make the weapon (be it a sword, staff or otherwise) a simple extension of ones own body. thus the transfer of energies from the body go on to the swinging arm and thus into the weapon making it strike harder. -granted bullets dont need this specific transfer of energy as the cartridges supply their own, but the guns are in fact being used as a tool to simply extend the reach of their user as well as their users force to an exponential level. -the gun-kata reminds me a lot of what staff combat looks like, only with the bullets drawing straight line extensions out from the user at a much more drastic distance and rate than a staff. -it seems to me that such use of handguns in a martial way is pretty original. -TrustKill-
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Post by Libby on Dec 29, 2003 11:49:52 GMT -5
I know absolutely nothing about martial arts or guns, so I wouldn't even dare make a comment, but you guys are so knowledgeable. It's fascinating to read all the intricate details of existing arts applied to the Gun-Kata. It certainly enhances my viewing pleasure. Cheers! ;D
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 11:58:24 GMT -5
the more and more i think about it, the more it really reminds me of staff combat or 3 sectioned staff fighting, having to compensate for both sides of impact.
-sort of makes you wonder how adept clerics are at medium to long-ranged weapon combat, though. or how well they would fare against more covert technologies. how would a clerics training pit up against a suppressed sniper rifle, i wonder...
-TrustKill-
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Post by wavemaninawe on Jan 1, 2004 18:43:45 GMT -5
My comment on the matter: Take a look at the live acting version of "crying freeman" starring Mark Dacascos. In every firefight the freeman participates in, he handles it like a gun-kata fighter; tracking multiple targets, using the minimum of ammo on the maximum of opponents, constantly changing posture and position to minimize his exposure to enemy fire and always seeming to be one step ahead of all their actions. This and all the the other fancy manouvres he does are credited to ancient chinese magic and advanced brainwashing. So the explanation is hardly similar but it was still funny to see the resemblence in the use. The Freeman obviously has extensive martial arts knowledge and it seems like his techniques include a wide chapter on gunfighting. I haven't seen "Romeo & Juliet" as someone mentioned previously but I think this is the most similar example I've come across (including the RPGs).
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Post by Rymel on Jan 4, 2004 4:35:25 GMT -5
wow, just post after post of how it's just like HK cinema. did anybody actually read the interview where he said HK cinema was his inspiration among other things, and that he'd seen plenty of gunfighting movies and just wanted to make a movie with the most kickass gunfighting in any movie up til then? the matrix doesn't really count since they relied on many gimmicks to get their gunfighting to another level (although i still love the movies all the same), and EQ stays relatively realistic in terms of physics (let's ignore the acrobatics ^_^ and even if it's not "original" (i had this argument in a glowsticking forum), it's original to him, and that's all that matters. i mean inspiration has to come from SOMEWHERE, right? well, now that that's over with...it's original in its APPLICATION. never mind the whole scientific thing, cuz even he probably dismisses it, just the idea in itself of a systemized martial arts system based around a handgun is incredible. and it's clearly not just another akimbo guns movie because we can see in more than one scene how he chambers his fist when he has only one gun, so they probably teach them one first. but not before empty hands, of course. and with that i quote hardboiled: Give a man a gun, he thinks he is Superman. Give him two and he thinks he is God. so if a cleric is incredibly deadly with one, why not give him two? now, i thought of the airsoft guns as well before reading this thread...it's pretty easy to figure out a workable martial art out of this without going lethal. you also have to keep in mind that the cleric's job is close combat, not ranged. you never noticed how they were the supersweepers, never farther than maybe a dozen feet? that's not to say they're not trained for long range, but that close to mid range is their specialty. and without acrobatics you could come up with something quite efficient and deadly. the only problem i see with airsoft guns is similar kickback. would become a problem in applying to real life, not that you would have a reason to...i just realized i basically quoted trustkill...talk about like minds... now about the whole 'only a westerner could come up with this'...that is just bull. it just so happened he made it into an actual form, that's all. i don't know if anyone else could've come up with a martial arts form the way he could've though, because only he had his particular vision of a kick-ass gunfighter better than anything HE'D seen before. and with that i think i'll stop because i might not be making sense anymore...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 4, 2004 7:57:22 GMT -5
Good point amigo, his vision, and original to him - bravo!
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Post by JenGe on Jan 4, 2004 11:05:32 GMT -5
I think here is where we get into what Wimmer refers to as "action philistines." "No, I don't even remotely agree with The Matrix comparisons. In my opinion, they are made by action philistines who cannot distinguish between bullet-time and the lack of it, between wire-fu and the absence of it, between slow-motion and the lack of it. It is a dull mathematics to simply say, science fiction plus action equals The Matrix." - Interview @ Sci/Fi DimensionsThough he made this statement specifically about the Matrix comparisons I think that it has relevance in this discussion as well. Its the details along with the execution that made Gun Kata original. I certainly had never seen anything like that on screen!!
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 4, 2004 11:16:05 GMT -5
I'll go out on the supporters limb and say the following.
In all my years of watching action movies and movies from the HKA side of things. I have never seen a combat form that combines the use of guns with martial arts, statistical probability and religious/semi-religious doctrines.
At the risk of being set on fire and covered in rocket fuel.
Gun Kata is: Original.
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Post by Rymel on Jan 4, 2004 17:30:31 GMT -5
agreed. you gain a deeper appreciation for the movie after you've read the interview. i mean c'mon, no wire work, most of the gun kata scenes were done in one shot...and doctrines/statistical probability aside - no HK cinema movie has gone so far as making gunfighting INTO a martial art, although plenty have MIXED them. i see a big difference there...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 4, 2004 17:33:20 GMT -5
Not to Mention Wimmer is in the opening credits, performing his vision
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