badbud
Sense Offender
Posts: 7
|
Post by badbud on Feb 22, 2006 1:46:41 GMT -5
Hmm... I found the gunkata to be a little unbalanced. I simply just don't use a lot of the moves. I find it easier to turn and face my enemy and hammer them in the face with a forward gunkata (or a crouch+fire key combo), rather than to try and position myself in a way that I can run by some enemies and shoot on both sides of myself in hopes of killing them (hardly ever works for me ). Generally three forward gunkatas at close range will blow a cleric to dust. Either that or that crouch fire move, which can cut them in half in less time than the forward gunkata's will. Stupid clerics. Hmm... I do happen to use the forward strafe gunkata flips a lot, because they can get you around easily and you can't get hurt while you're doing it. I also use the back gunkata a fairly good amount. Not the back+right gunkata (that one sucks), but the straight back one, since you get to fire backwards AND forwards, and it fires more bullets than the backflip anyway. Actually, I've found the back gunkata is the best way to take out two enemies. It's a lot better than using the left gunkata (which for preston fires side to side). I guess in conclusion the only gunkatas I find to be inbalanced or useless are the random shot ones (you know, the big fire everywhere gunkata that finishes with a pose) and the side gunkata. The plain jump gunkata is iffy. Sometimes it's really nice, sometimes it's plain horrible. Anyway... that's my five dollars.
|
|
|
Post by muskylounger on Feb 22, 2006 7:28:35 GMT -5
I thought the mod was great. There seem to be allot of people feeling it did'nt live up to their expectations. It was exactly what i expected. The gunkata system is never going to be easy to use at first, you just have to get used to it. I found it great how you could link animations allot better than in other mod's. In those it was like 'Ok i did a cool move... now i just have to wait for him to reset to standing there and i can do another one' Being able to stand there and aim all around is also great. The only letdown for me was that 'father' didnt fight with you the way he did in the movie, but i never worked out how it would be possible to implement that anyway so well done overall.
|
|
|
Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 22, 2006 8:47:08 GMT -5
I think the only way that you could actually put in the 'gun-push' fighting style, would have been in a carefully coreographed cutscene, that happens when you kill Father.
|
|
badbud
Sense Offender
Posts: 7
|
Post by badbud on Feb 22, 2006 11:54:16 GMT -5
Yar. I must admit though, a longer story mode would have been fun, even though that wasn't the mod's focus. Everybody likes a little reward and adventure. This mod is really fast paced and never lets up... story modes tend to let you breathe.
|
|
|
Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 22, 2006 12:15:53 GMT -5
A longer story mode would have been fun but you have to consider that these guys are modders, not game developers. They put together a pretty awesome mod for their first one and hopefully they might be encouraged to continue work on this one. They only have the resources available to modders, unlike big studios, who have massive and dedicated resources - several story designers, coders coming out of their ears, artists and so on. Some of the big studios can put a workforce of 150 people just on one aspect of a major game.
I would say from the perspective of a game designer these guys have done an excellent job with the tools they have, the talent between them and the picky engine they chose to work with. An extended story mode would have been quite something to see, but taking the fact that the HoM team worked on this mod for just under a year, adding a full blown story to it would have probably pushed the release back even further, perhaps adding six months to another year onto the schedule.
The mod really is a Gun Kata simulator and does pretty much what it says on the tin, for free.
|
|
|
Post by Hostile on Feb 22, 2006 16:05:18 GMT -5
It's about time! Just kidding guys, good work. Can't wait to get stuck in.
|
|
|
Post by destroyer on Feb 22, 2006 17:23:59 GMT -5
hmmm i like all the moves but why only one story level :/ the description of the mod is not really right (Hall of Mirrors is a Total conversion of Max Payne 2 that allows you to live out the journey of Cleric John Preston.) my wish is the hole story in this mod that would be cool ^^
|
|
ClericMatthius
Resistance Member
"I'm life. I live, I breathe, I feel. Now that you know it, can you really take it?"
Posts: 27
|
Post by ClericMatthius on Feb 22, 2006 18:00:48 GMT -5
I don't want to sound like a total n00b here, but do you have to have Max Payne 2 to use the mod? I can't wait to try it out. Thanks in advance...
|
|
Exeter
Sense Offender
Posts: 2
|
Post by Exeter on Feb 22, 2006 18:28:45 GMT -5
Hi, I just installed the mod and it rocks After doing some training I did story mode then objective mode. Oh, one thing I did notice is that the 'Archangel' manoeuvre doesn't seem to consume ammo. Not that it matters when you get stacks and stacks of the stuff EDIT: Am now trying the other characters in DMW and am figuring out wicked looking combos. Drop a clip and do Rico's (or is it Brandt's) roll forward into the clip and it follows up with a flip! Or, get on the furthest slowest bullet time and reload in mid-air while doing the forward-left/right flip jump with Preston. Most of the kata I find useful, you just have to position yourself, when I play I think "ok, there's two guys up ahead, I can get between them and use the side kata". Even the back-left shoot-everywhere one comes in handy when completely surrounded. I only find the backflip kata to be useful when there's an enemy directly behind me (so close that I can see him behind Preston in 3rd person). The Archangel kata can be used for forward firepower as well, by holding down fire when doing the kata. And crouch-firing while standing gives you MASSIVE forward firepower. And why do black letterbox stripes appear on the screen when Preston does the right-jump flip kata? However the 'shootdodge' kata seems underpowered. With Cleric staying still and only using the standard ammo (not the other stuff that gets consumed while doing katas) makes him a sitting duck with very little firepower.
|
|
|
Post by Rico on Feb 22, 2006 21:42:13 GMT -5
Yeah, but on the flipside enemies can't hurt you with bullets when you're doing the shootdodge kata, only explosions and melee can harm you. That's part of the balance, that's why the regular firing mode on the cleric berettas is so weak compared to the other guns
|
|
|
Post by Mullitt on Feb 23, 2006 0:45:16 GMT -5
This mod was extremely fun at first, but now I noticed that when I press a button (Shift, space or right click) and shoot I am invincible. So basically the only way I can die is if I shoot normally, which isn't any fun because I can't use Gun Kata.
|
|
yfopla
Resistance Member
Posts: 61
|
Post by yfopla on Feb 23, 2006 8:39:14 GMT -5
This mod was extremely fun at first, but now I noticed that when I press a button (Shift, space or right click) and shoot I am invincible. So basically the only way I can die is if I shoot normally, which isn't any fun because I can't use Gun Kata. I have been making a big deal of this bug. I already let Rico know of this problem on L4Y (included a video as well!) They know about this bug, and they will (hopefully!) fix this bug as soon as they take a break.
|
|
|
Post by cleric2k5 on Feb 23, 2006 11:22:57 GMT -5
I have to say I'm a little disappointed with this mod. After all the hype and such an inhumane wait I was expecting something better, but all in all it was a big let down for me. I don't mean this to say everyone should agree with me. If you enjoy the mod more power to you, but that's just my opinion on it and by all means play and enjoy. I just won't be doing the same.
|
|
|
Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 23, 2006 12:05:04 GMT -5
I don't want to sound like a total n00b here, but do you have to have Max Payne 2 to use the mod? I can't wait to try it out. Thanks in advance... Yep.
|
|
|
Post by GreyFox on Feb 23, 2006 16:21:29 GMT -5
I have to say I'm a little disappointed with this mod. After all the hype and such an inhumane wait I was expecting something better, but all in all it was a big let down for me. I don't mean this to say everyone should agree with me. If you enjoy the mod more power to you, but that's just my opinion on it and by all means play and enjoy. I just won't be doing the same. Would you mind elaborating on what you didn't like so then the mod makers can take this into account? Constructive criticism is the only way this mod will get better.
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Feb 23, 2006 18:20:56 GMT -5
Mr. A...I have this thread linked on the site's front page and news page. It might take me a few days before I can get it on the other pages (download) of the site. I'm swamped right now...
|
|
Exeter
Sense Offender
Posts: 2
|
Post by Exeter on Feb 23, 2006 21:24:49 GMT -5
Yeah, but on the flipside enemies can't hurt you with bullets when you're doing the shootdodge kata, only explosions and melee can harm you. That's part of the balance, that's why the regular firing mode on the cleric berettas is so weak compared to the other guns Ah, I see. Pretty cool idea!
|
|
|
Post by lokisrun on Feb 24, 2006 7:30:04 GMT -5
Honestly, i'm a little confused by those in the community who don't seem to be happy with the mod. One of the main criticism that people seem to have is that you become invulverable during various Katas. I don't want to sound condescending but how many times did Preston get shot in Equilibrium?.....That's right, he didn't, obviously one of the main factors in the katas is being able to avoid gunfire so i'm baffled as to how people can see that as a flaw. Secondly people were complaining that the invulnerablility gained during the shift+direction kata was unbalanced because all they had to do was stand there and shoot. It is you who is making the choice to use that particular maneuver to defeat your enemies, you who is making the choice to use what you feel is a "boring" kata. ALternatively you could use the plethora of other Katas and defeat your enemies is a stylish, fluid way that hones your skills as a cleric. Play it enough and you can complete the Story section by using a great variety of katas while making your way down the hall and annihilating your enemies without a scratch........That's Gun-Kata. Lastly, although it has been mentioned before i think it needs mentioning again. The people who made this mod, did so in their spare time, that's right, spare time. And they did it more or less for this community. If you are going to criticise constructivly that's fine, but don't sound ungrateful as some people seem to be. And they didn't make you wait just for a laugh, so don't even bring that up. Guys the mod is fantastic, i'm really happy with it. Nothing brings a smile to my face then killing DuPont just as Preston is finishing the "Retribution" Kata so he completes the pose in slow motion......Genius
|
|
|
Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 24, 2006 8:50:40 GMT -5
Well said lokisrun
|
|
enrico
Sense Offender
Posts: 6
|
Post by enrico on Feb 24, 2006 12:39:53 GMT -5
Secondly people were complaining that the invulnerablility gained during the shift+direction kata was unbalanced because all they had to do was stand there and shoot. It is you who is making the choice to use that particular maneuver to defeat your enemies, you who is making the choice to use what you feel is a "boring" kata. ALternatively you could use the plethora of other Katas and defeat your enemies is a stylish, fluid way that hones your skills as a cleric. Play it enough and you can complete the Story section by using a great variety of katas while making your way down the hall and annihilating your enemies without a scratch........That's Gun-Kata. No, that's poor gameplay. It's like how people pointed out how FEAR's melee attacks were pointless as they left you too vulnerable in the runup. Or how no one would bother using "stealth" on Soldier of Fortune 2's stealth levels because it was so badly implemented. It's the team's job to make gun-kata enjoyable. They failed. So? All mods are made in people's spare time but they don't all use it as a cop-out excuse to avoid criticism. Mod teams always pull out this "we don't owe you anything" argument everytime they feel people aren't sucking-up enough.
|
|
|
Post by lokisrun on Feb 24, 2006 13:56:26 GMT -5
Luckily i'm not prepared to debase this thread any further by actualy giving a response to that.
The people who visit this forum are smart enough to decide for themselves what they think about the mod.
The only thing i will add is that playing F.E.A.R without any of the martial arts was decidedly more boring than playing it with. They're often not quite as effective, but they're a hell of a lot more fun.
|
|
|
Post by Rico on Feb 24, 2006 14:27:24 GMT -5
Funny that for every person complaining about "poor gameplay" there are 50 people saying they love it.
If you don't like how it's done that's fine, but at least suggest some alternatives to make your criticism constructive. When I see people whine about things without offering solutions it just makes them seem like ungrateful children. Have better ideas? Post them, or better yet, build a mod and "show us how it's done".
|
|
|
Post by GreyFox on Feb 24, 2006 15:10:01 GMT -5
It's the team's job to make gun-kata enjoyable. They failed. They didn't fail in my opinion, they failed in yours. I think the Gun Kata came out real nice, but can benefit from some improvements. To say that they outright failed is a poor excuse to say that you didn't like the game. And yes, to say its a mod done in spare time is a viable excuse. I dont see you taking time out of your life to develop something that other people get paid for. Rico, Mr. A, and all the others who developed this game did it out of their own free time. You have to give them respect for that and quit your self righteous bitching.
|
|
|
Post by Mullitt on Feb 24, 2006 20:57:25 GMT -5
Funny that for every person complaining about "poor gameplay" there are 50 people saying they love it. If you don't like how it's done that's fine, but at least suggest some alternatives to make your criticism constructive. When I see people whine about things without offering solutions it just makes them seem like ungrateful children. Have better ideas? Post them, or better yet, build a mod and "show us how it's done". Make an option to not be invulnerable when you're, well, doing things. The gun kata is fun and all, but after awhile I want a challenge. DMW is not hard at all because I can survive forever unless I use regular shooting, which I shouldn't have to in a mod designed to give players other ways to kill enemies.
|
|
alcades
Resistance Member
Posts: 21
|
Post by alcades on Feb 24, 2006 22:07:31 GMT -5
I guess you just can't please everyone in the end. After playing some more, I'm still very happy playing HoM just the way it is. Its not that I believe there isn't room to improve certain aspects that the creators are not happy with, but they did a damm fine job giving me and other EQ fans a great mod. If I could suggest anything in a future version, single handed Gun-katas might be cool, even if they were not in EQ. I wonder/hope some or all of the Gun-kata system from HoM might work it's way into Rogue-Ops, because that would be pretty sweet. And on a side note, I believe in style and fun factor over anything. Which is why I played FEAR using as many martial arts moves as often as possible and then switching to dual pistols, when just walking in slo-mo and using a more powerful gun and only slightly moving would accomplished the same goal. Its all about fun people, if after playing a game and being able to check the "I had a hell of lot fun playing this" box that should really be all you need. Sometimes I really just can't get how people can expect so much from a game/movie/other project that they had no hand in creating. Constructive criticism is a good thing, but shiftless complaining about how something did not meet your expectations really just makes you look like a child.
|
|
|
Post by ClericRevan on Feb 28, 2006 22:31:30 GMT -5
Anyone made any kind of video of someone playing this? I dont have Max Payne 2 at the moment, so, someone can post the tutorial video, or anything like that please?
|
|
|
Post by MisterAnderson on Feb 28, 2006 23:01:17 GMT -5
|
|
simon
Resistance Member
Posts: 42
|
Post by simon on Mar 1, 2006 3:30:53 GMT -5
Umm... CAN ANYBODY TELL WHAT THIS IS ABOUT?!
|
|
|
Post by Witcher Wolf on Mar 1, 2006 6:34:04 GMT -5
Only if you stop using Caps in most of your gorram' posts.
|
|
|
Post by pyro on Mar 2, 2006 13:05:35 GMT -5
i have GOT to come back here more often!
not only has the Mod been released but theres people complaining about it!
watched the training video... i need to BUY max payne2
|
|