Serious Gun Kata Development: Part 2

[TrustKill]

hey guys (rymel, enemies, wolf, etc), remember all that progress and good discussion we had in our last gun kata development thread? i dont know if it is locked or what, but i cant post stuff in it. so i propose we continue where we left off in THIS thread.

[Witcher Wolf]

Sounds good to me

[TrustKill]

glad to have you back on board

[MAX]

TrustKill, if a thread doesn't work... Tell Jen an' she'll fix it...

[BlackDragon]

Hi people!! Finally I found the right place to post lol...... so I'm actually post here what I wrote in the wrong one lol
Yesterday I read all the 13 pages of the old thread U have nad U guys have such great ideas, not only the traning ones but all the gun discussion, very interesting, I actually learn a few things!
Some of U purpose the hypotesis of getting together to train some katas, That's an excelent idea! Unfortunately I'm so far away....
As almost all of U share with us the martial arts that love or pratice I'm gonna do the same lol
so... my heart belong to tradicional ones like Karate wich I practiced for years, then I practiced Kundo (similar to Kendo but it's a corean martial art) and now i'm in something a little diferent (live bring me to it...lol) KickBoxing!
Like this I have a little pratice on sword katas and karate ones of course
I hope that I can help in something like giving some ideas maybe!!

c-ya

[TrustKill]

all these intertwined gun kata threads get confusing, no?

-im pretty sure the guys that were planning on getting together both live in New York. rymel and cleric enemies if im not mistaken...

-enemies actually had the chance to meet up w/ some of his other friends and test out some gun kata exercises, but i think he mentioned that in the previous forum so i wont beat that dead horse...

-its been a little slow in the development phases as of late. last i knew, rymel was having some computer situation problems and cleric enemies is in a band and i think their tour is starting up. needless to say, he wont be around for a while... ive got a couple of things id LIKE to be working on, but the office has been too busy for me to get into drawing, drafting, scanning, tracking down Jen for hosting, posting, explaining, etc. hopefully it will die down soon and i can get a jump on it all.

[BlackDragon]

Yeah.... I understand!!!! But anywayz this is a good theme to discuss, right! Even if we do not do something concrete!!

hugs

[Cleric Enemies]

hey guys, sorry i was away for a while, i was touring, and doing other band stuff, this section of the boards is cool! hows everyone

[JenGe]

MAX said:

TrustKill, if a thread doesn't work... Tell Jen an' she'll fix it...

If this happens just PM or E-mail me. Lately I haven't had the time to get to all of the threads. Just let me know & I'll fix them asap.

[MAX]

There ya see.

Thanks Jen!

[TrustKill]

Cleric said:

hey guys, sorry i was away for a while, i was touring, and doing other band stuff, this section of the boards is cool! hows everyone

-good good, how was touring, sir? welcome back.

[Cleric Enemies]

it was good, hows the Kata coming along?

[TrustKill]

its been a while

[BlackDragon]

Hello Cleric Enemies! I'm kinda curious.... lol.... what type of music is related to your band!? (if I can ask... )

[TrustKill]

he may not be back for a while, so i can answer...

-its christian hardcore music. really good. you can go to his site and download an mp3

[BlackDragon]

NICE!!! I will I will Thanx Trust

[Cleric Enemies]

thanks for the compliment trustkill!, we are going away to play ,,gasp,, more shows this weekend, but on sunday night we're playing airsoft! so i'll let u know how my kata goes

[TrustKill]

GOOD!

-pretty soon, im going to take some money and buy a p90 AEG. its just a shame i live all the way in KC. otherwise i would join in the game...

-i really like your music, man. i NEED to know if and when you come through KC. ill be there to shake your hand.

[TrustKill]

back to the kata though...

-im working on schematics for some drawings of a new cleric weapon. anyone who has seen trigun knows about wolfwood's pistol w/ the split trigger guard.

-it is designed for one handed use. the front of the trigger guard actually pulls back like a trigger to pull the slide and chamber a cartridge. this design in mind, im trying to come up w/ other innovations in how to keep the cleric's guns in shooting position as much as possible. ill be back w/ a pic of the "graber single hand" gun i am talking about...

[TrustKill]

here we go.

[akumabito]

TrustKill said:

-im working on schematics for some drawings of a new cleric weapon. anyone who has seen trigun knows about wolfwood's pistol w/ the split trigger guard.

That's really cool mate. I was thinking about doing some design work for myself, roughly based on Vash's gun, but with a twist..

What are your plans exactly for the schematics? Just want to see if the theory would work? Making a prop replica? A BB/Airsoft version? A real-steel model?

Something that might be of interest when designing a gun for one-hand use: have a look at the rifles used at biathlons. They cock really lightly (small caliber), and the gunner can do it without moving his hands.

I don't know for sure, but I think there are some small caliber match guns that can be cocked single handed as well.

I've always been interested in fire-arm technology.. do you know some sites with detailed information about the tech bits? (diagrams and stuff)

[TrustKill]

www.securityarms.com

-there isnt a lot of specific technical data perse, but there are little tidbits for just about any piece of small arms and sometimes artillery one could ever want.

-like i said, its not in a whole lot of detail, but its an excellent starting place.

[Rymel]

WOW, i haven't been here in forever...it's GREAT to see a gun kata forum, and that you guys are continuing the thread without my continual harassment... ;D my progress stopped due to college sucking royally, but i still try to think of techniques when i can. is our old thread still there? i'd like to save the conversations as we had a lot of good ideas in there.

in regards to trigun weaponry...i never really paid attention to wolfwood's handguns, so i'm not sure of the design you speak of. now vash's gun, that's doable. i've been told you can convert a colt or something to use 45 long ammo and build around it to make it look like vash's. it'd be pretty damn powerful, but unly six shots :\ on a side note, if i can get some training in using a CNC machine and metalworking, i may try to make vash's gun, and wolfwood's cross-gun ;D then there's squall's gunblade from FF8, but you guys don't wanna know what kind of insanity i have in store for THAT weapon...

now development-wise, the only thing i've come up with as of late is an idea for quick-reloading clips. i'm not sure which would work better, so i'll list both so you guys can analyze and flame the idea is based on magazine releases and how their gravity-based ejection.

for handguns, i was thinking of an attachment on the bottom of the grip which held another clip below the inserted clip, only upside down. the second clip would be attached to the grip extension via a slide with a spring coil on it. when the user ejects the cartridge, the clip would spin 180 degrees via the spring and the user would push the clip back in manually, probably by pushing it down onto their hip. i know it adds length but if designed right the handgun's extensioin could even include a blade a la ultraviolet, opening up new combat possibilities.

rifle-wise i was thinking either the same type of reloader or one that upon sliding down would have the extra clip slide sideways, and be pushed in by the same way. the mechanisms could be complicated by introducing a rotational system in the clips so the clip doesn't face down and dirt can't get into it. the rifle's sliding system would fatten the clip area considerably, but i don't think it'd be much of a problem aside from additional weight.

also, i was thinking of moving over to bullpup-style weaponry to reduce recoil, increase range and maybe even increase clip size since it'd be out of the way. what do you guys think?

[TheMacroprosopus]

Personally, I think you guys are crazy.

But totally awesome because of it!!! There are some really cool ideas on here! This is neat. I think the scariest thing is that this all sounds as though it would work. Remind me never to anger any of you... ;D

[Rymel]

coming from a practitioner of wang-fu, i take that as a compliment ;D and most of it would work, if given enough work. it's the equipment R&D that'll kill us. custom equipment is so expensive...fortunately, we won't have to worry about that til we get something basic down with off-the-shelf equipment anyway. custom equipment is just the icing on the cake, for that extra killing power

[TrustKill]

holy crap!! where have you been for the past eternity?

-hmm... i think i have an idea of what you described for the auto-loading pistold clips and yeah that would probably work. sadly, i still think the best way for making more ammo space is to reduce the caliber size. surely the bullets lose a lot of stopping power but they gain a lot of penetration. i think a modified beretta hi-capacity magazine would probably hold 20-25 4.6 mm rounds like the ones designed for the MP-7. (god bless it)

-rifles have all sorts of things to make reloading faster including the famous electrical tape around the magazines that you see in movies like Die Hard 2 w/ the terrorist's MP-5's and on AK's in tons of movies. some of the newer rifles a la G36 and Sig 550 series actually have magazine clips built into them so you can stack them vertically. when one is empty, you just shift if over to the left or right.

[Rymel]

haha...without cable and in class...college sucks ;\

i agree that reducing calibur size would increase ammo capacity a good amount, but i think that would detract too much from the cleric's killing power. although i do like the idea of increased penetration power, the chances of richocheting is inreased as well. and in close quarters handgun combat, that can be deadly for the practitioner. but it's a thought to consider. now about those hi-cap mags...can we even get those in the civilian sector? much less modify one without breaking it? the thought of a handgun-ized MP-7 is pretty tempting though...

the electrical tape around the magazines was actually where i got the idea from in the first place. i tried to figure a way to improve reload times while keeping the user's hands on the rifle and allowing them to sight the rifle again quickle. i'm trying to picture the G36's clip system you mention though...do you have a pic of it? it sounds like the second reload system i described. nice to know those crazy germans actually made that a reality!

i was gonna try to get in some mock training in to figure out some concepts but unfortunately i kinda sprained or pulled a tendon somewhere around the ball of my left foot...which is attached to the big toe...and since i can't put any pressure on it whatsoever and it just hurts to hell regardless...i won't be doing a damn thing for at least 2 weeks except schoolwork and R: Racing Evolution...;D wish i knew what the hell i did to my foot though.

[Preacher]

Rymel said:

i agree that reducing calibur size would increase ammo capacity a good amount, but i think that would detract too much from the cleric's killing power..

I know im new and net even part of the team here but id like to and my 2 cents.. as to killing power the main point of the cleric is to find a higher effective rating that includes things such as posture, motion, breathing and aim.

It wont really matter about what caliber if the aim is in the more leathal areas of the body, thus leaving you with more ammo for the rest of the assailents and delaying the flowbreaking of having to reload.

Extended clips with the lower caliber is a deadly way to go .. witht he correct training of course.

another point if i may, Having held an airsoft verson of the Desert eagle and airsoft verson of the Cleric I would like to add physical training is a must for the forearms and shoulders just to aim, guns are heavy things even when not loaded and in order to have a good aim as well as preform a half decent flow of motion between points will require dedicated training (dont get me started about the pistol whiping kata) training would also have to take into consideration things such as recoil and avoiding the slide hitting you (like when you cross your arms or aim behind you)

Just a thought for you

[TrustKill]

welcome, preacher.

-we try not to be an exclusive club around here, so dont worry about adding any info you think would be helpful...

-you're right about guns being heavy. real ones are even heavier than airsoft ones too. we have talked a lot (in previous threads) about how to most control and reduce the recoil in a real weapon and it is indeed a hard thing to do. i believe the final consensus was on a 4-way ported compensator so that an equal amount of muzzle flash energy would be released in all directions thus reducing the amount of felt recoil evenly, even when firing the gun in awkward positions, i.e. upside down.

-its not a win-all/beat-all situation and lots of physical training, as you said, will be needed simply to control the forces that will be tossed around from the recoil etc, but such technical goodies will definitely help.

-thank you for backing me up about the ammo. as much as rymel's ideas about stopping power have merit (i am a big fan of using 9mm ammo in the weapons too) it really wont matter what size or how much stopping power the rounds have if you hit your targets in vital areas. the only thing i didnt think of (thanks rymel) was that the assault rifle style rounds DO have more of a tendancy to ricochet (due to the pointy, skinny shape i believe). that adds extra danger than would probably be neccessary. i dunno about you guys, but id rather worry about changing magazines than getting shot by my own bullets...

-good stuff though.

[Preacher]

Ive had a thought about Rymel's rotating clip idea... it seems a good idea.. but it would be A LOT of extra weight for you to carry around while firing etc/ also doing Gunkata positions with that would seem difficult, the idea is cool and this is only a little contructive thought tho