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Post by Libby on Dec 29, 2003 12:06:36 GMT -5
Dead...Brandt...*thud* *slideyface* You know, that scene has to have one of the highest "yuk" factors ever, because it was sooo unexpected. I mean, we know Preston has a penchant for going for the face, but...eeyeew!
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 12:10:18 GMT -5
i would have enjoyed seeing some grey matter go spilling, or some of that brain cushioning fluid stuff. of course that is just me raising the bar after seeing kill bill...
- i bet libby would have really loved that one.
-TrustKill-
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Post by Libby on Dec 29, 2003 12:23:46 GMT -5
Kill Bill...no probs...funnily enough, films with a very high 'yuk' factor don't bother me at all, (well, maybe the original Texas Chain Saw Massacre) I can sit through any number of modern brain-splatterers without flinching (too much). It's the totally out-of-the-blue, split second of violence which shocks me and has a much more profound effect. My library is actually full of those gut-wrenching forensic novels (Kathy Reichs, Patricia Cornwell, Tess Gerritson, etc), so I'm no stranger to the horrors man wreaks upon man;D
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 14:12:25 GMT -5
i understand that they don't expect to fight their own, but wouldn't you want, at least in the guards directly responsible for your safety, to be the most prepared? i'd think the absolute best training you could give your guard would be against their own, if they're the best. and they are ^_^ i know the guards in the hallway didn't expect it, but when he's walkin down your corridor guns drawn going TO the office, i don't think you should hesitate as long as they did. it was definitely longer than mere hesitation. i mean he shot two other guards THEN there was the delay! as well as tossing two clips down the corridor, i'd think it'd make troops somewhat suspicious. i also noticed from this scene that none of the other generic troops do...at all - evasive maneuvers. are librian soldiers THAT expendible? it's like oh they won't care if more get drafted. what, they're gonna get emotional over it? lol... as for everyone thinking preston wasn't up to par lately...he's Grammaton FIRST CLASS. even on a bad day he's still better than everyone. plus he was pissed and in the zone, nothin was gonna stop him. and dupont was absolutely disgusted with the new edge preston was in full control of, so i don't know why brandt was so cocky... with the lie detector scene, i honestly don't think he would be ARMED. they said he'd have to relinquish his firearm, but he was in his dress uniform, and it's assumed his only weapon would be his sword. i guess they don't believe in patting their down people. as for the nether weapons caches...i don't they CARED about nether weaponry. they just cared about securing their own city and the destruction of art and music and all that. they probly even manufacture their own weapons. even if they don't, that leaves an awful lot of weaponry available to the nethers, since the city's rather small and it's not stated that there's more than one prozium-controlled city. even if there were more, there's bound to be a large black market for nether residents to obtain them. with the scene you guys were talking about with the resistance running up and the soldiers not doing anything...it's a little hard to miss a non-uniformed mob running at you one thing i have to say though...i LOVED the sticky hands scene. i wonder how it'd be with 2 guns though. but come to think of it...the burns from the muzzleflash must hurt... i know it just sounds like i'm picking apart the movie too much, but i just finished reading 1984 a little while ago, and i see the similarities this movie has to it, but it's missing some things that would make it the totalitarian gov't it's trying to be. imagine this movie if it was like 1984, only with an order of clerics instead of thought police?
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 14:21:35 GMT -5
i always thought it was kind of fishy that they didnt search him for other weapons when they put him in the chair in that scene. it seems like it would have to be standard proceedure.
-you would think that they would have an order of clerics protecting the chamber of "Father", you know? but maybe that was the big finish Wimmer keeps talking about in his commentary that they ran out of money before they could do it. that would make more sense to me. that aside, you would think that the chamber guards of the basis for their lifestyle would be a tad bit more capable, even against a Cleric First Class...
-TrustKill-
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 14:33:06 GMT -5
that's what i've been saying in my earlier posts. you would think he'd have clerics in training to become or going up to first class as his personal guard. or at the very least have some anti-cleric training. but i think choreographing a multi-cleric scene would be sheer madness ;D even more so with guns AND swords, let alone more than just the standard issue handguns. ...come to think of it, i'd like to see that...they should make a movie, or a straight to video " documentary" on libria, gun kata, and the tetragrammaton
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 14:35:31 GMT -5
i think i said something in a previous post about wanting a second DVD disc w/ an all gun-kata segment. something set up like an exercise tape.
(someone call the tae-bo guy)
-but anyway... they NEED to make a second release w/ more bonus features. with all the $$ this movie is making in europe and such, they could afford to re-edit and add some special stuff for a directors cut version, dont you think?
-TRustKill-
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 14:42:28 GMT -5
yea but i'd like to also see info on the city and the order itself, not just gun kata. and i don't want just form either, i'd like some actual info according to wimmer. maybe we should all start writing letters to whoever released equilibrium and nag em til they fold
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Dec 29, 2003 14:47:19 GMT -5
I think Wimmer tbh, has moved on now from EQ and onto Ultraviolet, as Jen said in the one thread - we're the ones who get caught up in the vision they create, when often all they want to do is move on to new ground.
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 14:50:20 GMT -5
::flexes typing fingers::
-shit yeah!! not like i have anything better to do all day here at work...
-i get what you are saying with the info and stuff too. id like a big second dvd chock full of goodies.
-digital tour of Libria -backgrounds and history of the Tetragrammaton -detailed historical timeline of the EQ continuum -gun specs -maybe an organization chart with some commentary showing the ranking ladder of Clerics and Father's staff. -gun kata tutorials and/or footage of the actors doing their training for it.
-stuff like that would really enhance the whole experience and answer some of the questions deeper fans like you, me, and the rest of the folks on this fine forum have. writing them emails might not be a bad idea. i dont know how much good it will do, but all they can do is say "no" really, and then we are no worse off than when we started.
-TrustKill-
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 15:02:07 GMT -5
wolf - what's ultraviolet?
i don't think there's MUCH of a timeline, since preston and his initial partner were both pre-dawn clerics. i guess you could also blame most of the plotholes and questions on it ;D but yea i agree, i'd love something like that.
sadly, i've come to realize, that only anime and manga artists like to go into such detail about their worlds...i wish others would follow suit...
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 15:05:53 GMT -5
i know!! ill tell you what... when im famous for writing something or whatever, ill be sure to go into as much detail and everything else as humanly possible. then ill put it all in a giant box and mail all of my sketches, timelines, backstories, freewrites, etc directly to you. it'll be worth a fortune, i promise. hehehe...
-TrustKill-
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 15:08:15 GMT -5
lol will do ;D
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Dec 29, 2003 15:12:04 GMT -5
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Post by TrustKill on Dec 29, 2003 15:13:31 GMT -5
welcome to the forum, by the way...
-you shoud introduce yourself in the introductions thread if you havent already. (i figured id throw this in there since we're already off-topic a little bit)
-anyway yeah... back to the gun kata.
-TrustKill-
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Dec 29, 2003 15:16:14 GMT -5
wolf - what's ultraviolet? i don't think there's MUCH of a timeline, since preston and his initial partner were both pre-dawn clerics. i guess you could also blame most of the plotholes and questions on it ;D but yea i agree, i'd love something like that. sadly, i've come to realize, that only anime and manga artists like to go into such detail about their worlds...i wish others would follow suit... Not just anime and Manga artists m8, I spent several years designing my Fantasy Book World, 23 to be precise, and it's still being tweaked. The last professional project I worked on, was the PC game Breed, to which I created. 1) A full timeline for the game. 2) A small 60 page Novella detailing the History/Backstory of the game's world. 3) A Sourcebook of 60 or so pages, detailing stuff that wasn't in the Novella, so the devs and Publisher had a wealth of information to go into. 4) The game's dialogue, script, vehicle/weapons and descriptions...some of which can be found on. www.breedhq.com90% of the text on that website's mine, the flavour stuff, the FAQ was done by a m8 of mine called: Rico.
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Post by Kodanshi on Dec 29, 2003 15:50:51 GMT -5
i always thought it was kind of fishy that they didnt search him for other weapons when they put him in the chair in that scene. it seems like it would have to be standard proceedure. Listen to Wimmer's commentary on the DVD during the polygraph scene. He explains it comes down to the place where they took him. Between that room and the Hall Of Mirrors lies a metal detector. They would have taken his weapons after going through that room. Of course, it doesn't explain why they told him the truth first! Perhaps they thought they'd already taken his gun ('how do you get a weapon away from a grammaton cleric?' basly misquoted, I know!)?
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 16:32:38 GMT -5
thanks. i've actually been here a little while, but i never posted and i didn't register. i discussed the idea to a couple of friends. came to the conclusion you can't call it gun kata as an art because the gun kata is just that, the gun kata. came up with two ideas: gun-fu (cyberpunk2020 reference) and gunwaltz. they also decided that i (note not we) should work on the idea further since i had a pretty good idea of what i wanted. and then i realized that everyone else on this board wanted to do it as well, and it got me thinking - even if we share our ideas, some will definitely be used more than others, and some may not be used at all or kept for our respective 'school', like real martial arts. the basis would be similar but then there would be difference in styles, so to speak. chin na oriented (locks and joint manipulation), melee specialists, wushu related, you know what i mean. or maybe even just location-different. very OT but i spin glowsticks, and the differences between east, west, midwest and south are distinct enough to separate. that could be true here, if it ever comes to be. so who wants to seriously develop a style? =) EDIT: with that i realized it's worth becoming its own post so...if it's related to what i just said, post there ;D equilibrium.proboards17.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1072734018
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Post by Libby on Dec 29, 2003 19:44:26 GMT -5
but maybe that was the big finish Wimmer keeps talking about in his commentary that they ran out of money before they could do it. -TrustKill- If you read the original screenplay, Page 101, I think the 'big finish' was to have Preston and DuPont firing at each other with their bullets colliding, counting shots until Preston tricks DuPont.
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 19:47:01 GMT -5
really? i think i like what they did instead then, although it would've been cool to see it incorporated. but wouldn't you like to see a multi-cleric battle? ;D
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Post by Libby on Dec 29, 2003 20:06:04 GMT -5
Wouldn't I just! ;D But maybe that would have got a bit too Matrixy. The thing is, Preston is the best the TG have. You know he's going to win without even getting his hair mussed. It's a bit like John Wayne winning WW2, the fun is seeing how he does it. We just have to accept it's all to do with money. Having said that, part of the allure, for me, of this film is its pared down quality. I mean, we know they could only find (and afford) one car and if you look closely, you can spot the same extras in different outfits, but who cares! I think it gives us such scope for imaginative discussion. The whole Gun-Kata thing is extraordinary!
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 20:55:12 GMT -5
agreed agreed ;D
y'know if it wasn't FOR the gun kata, it'd be just another 'matrix ripoff'. but i don't think a multi cleric battle would be too matrixy if done just right. the thing is it'd probably have to be all mid to close quarters combat, since they'd all know he's the best and that a cleric's aim is unerring, so they'd try to neutralize at least one problem. it also brings in the possibility of melee weapons other than a katana, which would make things VERY interesting. some site tried to make up a knife-based gun kata called mantis style, that would be interesting to see in this situation. what do you think?
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Post by Libby on Dec 29, 2003 21:57:15 GMT -5
Even if Preston is the best thing since sliced and diced bread, I think he really wouldn't stand that much chance in CQB if he were pitched against more than two other Clerics. With three, they'd use him as a triangulation point. At such close quarters, knives or guns, the outcome would probably be the same. If they used other melee weapons (like flails and maces?), we could get into gladiator-style territory and the rules change. Have to think about that part some more as it seems to move away from the Kata philosophy, geometrical distribution and all that.
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 22:21:05 GMT -5
it doesn't really move away, it just adds another dimension in terms of geometrics. i think when it comes to close quarters they would opt to use other targets as body shields and work on their opponent's momentum to force them into another opponent opposite them....
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Post by Rymel on Dec 29, 2003 23:33:48 GMT -5
whoa, turns out i missed two posts! sorry wolf!
i'm aware that rpg and video game writers go into enormous detail sometimes, but a lot of that stuff never makes it OUT, which sucks, to say the least. i think i heard of breed before, is it coming to the US? i'd like to check out that novella if possible too ;D
trustkill - what do you mean they told him the truth first? and why didn't the metal detectors detect his weapons?
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Dec 30, 2003 0:19:42 GMT -5
whoa, turns out i missed two posts! sorry wolf! i'm aware that rpg and video game writers go into enormous detail sometimes, but a lot of that stuff never makes it OUT, which sucks, to say the least. i think i heard of breed before, is it coming to the US? i'd like to check out that novella if possible too ;D trustkill - what do you mean they told him the truth first? and why didn't the metal detectors detect his weapons? Breed should be out, worldwide release: Feb 2004 (Publisher Willing) As for the Novella, that might come out with the game, or not...depends on what they do. Lots of my writing can be found in the EC-10 Forums, House of Cards, Memories and Wyrden...not to mention if you dig back, you'll see a thread to the PDF of Firefall, which was written as a side-story to the main Breed backstory. Also there's the link to the original forum post I made: www.cdv-board.de/english/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8847
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Post by Libby on Dec 30, 2003 8:49:26 GMT -5
it doesn't really move away, it just adds another dimension in terms of geometrics. i think when it comes to close quarters they would opt to use other targets as body shields and work on their opponent's momentum to force them into another opponent opposite them.... Yes...I agree with that, but I also wonder just how much the Cleric would be trained in avoiding just those situations. I suppose it would come down to whoever made the first mistake. The fight would either drag on with no-one gaining obvious advantage, or it would be over very quickly. I don't have any martial arts knowledge at all, (and don't understand any of the meta-language) just years of watching Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Jackie Chan and even -dare I admit- Chuck Norris and Jean-Claude van Damme...OK even Steven Seagal before he got fat...
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Post by pyro on Dec 30, 2003 12:31:49 GMT -5
Of course, it doesn't explain why they told him the truth first! Perhaps they thought they'd already taken his gun ('how do you get a weapon away from a grammaton cleric?' basly misquoted, I know!)? it wasnt misquote beacues they took his sword. the reason they told preston the truth before taking away his guns was because dupont thought that preston would break down and give up. if preston didnt break down, the 50 elite guard class sweepers in the main hallway would come in handy. dupont and all of us learned somthing, never underestimate a grammaton cleric
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Post by JenGe on Dec 30, 2003 14:41:48 GMT -5
y'know if it wasn't FOR the gun kata, it'd be just another 'matrix ripoff'. OK, I'm gonna take ya to the rack for that one!! Without the gun kata EQ would not be a Matrix rip off...it wouldn't even be an action film at all. Stylized action (Gun Kata) is the only reason that "action Philistines" are even making the comparison at all between the two films.
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Post by JenGe on Dec 30, 2003 14:44:04 GMT -5
From what I've read they are working it into Ultraviolet.
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