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Post by MAX on Mar 8, 2004 4:01:22 GMT -5
OK, due to the fact that I am swamped with stuff to do for the site and that I honestly am not over concerned with this here is what I will do....turn it over to you. If someone wants to start an "Index" thread & then post all the related subject threads then I'll be more then happy to make it stick. Ok, cool. Let's get started! A sequel to Equilibrium?Here are some of the more recent threads regarding a possible sequel to EQ: (Edit by JenGe-fixed link due to board upgrade)
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Post by mawa on Mar 8, 2004 6:41:45 GMT -5
Here are more of them Gun swap - is it a plot hole?Here are some threads regarding the gun swap:
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Post by mawa on Mar 8, 2004 7:28:29 GMT -5
Mistakes in EquilibriumHere are some threads regarding the flaws spotted in Equilibrium.
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Post by mawa on Mar 8, 2004 17:06:52 GMT -5
Here comes more... Equilibrium vs The Matrix / Preston vs Neo[/u] Here are threads regarding comparisions between Equilibrium & The Matrix / Preston & Neo
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Post by mawa on Mar 9, 2004 11:16:26 GMT -5
BatmanHere are threads regarding the new Batman movie, starring Christian Bale:
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Post by mawa on Mar 10, 2004 15:35:16 GMT -5
EQ SoundtrackHere are the threads regarding the awesome EQ soundtrack and ways of getting it:
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Post by JenGe on Mar 11, 2004 9:07:19 GMT -5
Equilibrium Items/Merchandise Thread [/url] [/li][/ul]
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Post by mawa on Mar 28, 2004 6:44:13 GMT -5
Alien Watch / (Cleric Watch)Here are some threads regarding the, so called, Cleric Watches:
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Post by MAX on Apr 26, 2004 0:48:29 GMT -5
Equilibrium's Font/TypefaceHere are some of the more recent threads regarding availability of EQ's Font/Typeface: They can be found on the downloads page... (edit by JenGe to fix link)
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Post by JenGe on May 19, 2004 22:12:59 GMT -5
TetragrammatonDiscussions about its meaning & symbol:
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Post by JenGe on May 19, 2004 22:51:32 GMT -5
Kurt Wimmer "Coke" CommentDiscussions about the following remark that director Kurt Wimmer made on the DVD commentary: "I'll give you a coke if you can tell me where I stole this shot from.
I can tell I'm gonna go bankrupt now from having to buy people cokes."
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Post by JenGe on Sept 8, 2004 20:30:00 GMT -5
Now that the boards have been fixed we seem to have more than one "active" comic thread. I don't want to lock any at this point because there are two currenly in use. I will be locking the second one later. Here are all of the "Comic" threads on the board... Equilibrium Comic Threads(locked)
[/li][li] The Equilibrium Comic Thread - 2[/li][li] Equilibrium Comics - Thread 3[/li][/ul][/b]
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Post by eltostador on Jul 4, 2005 17:34:15 GMT -5
What and how is the Ranking system?
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Post by JenGe on Jul 5, 2005 18:02:55 GMT -5
What and how is the Ranking system? If you are asking about the board... Sense Offender: 1-9 Resistance Member 10-74 Sweeper 75-99 Grammaton Cleric 100-699 Grammaton Cleric First Class 700+ After 100 posts though you can ask for a custom rank as long as it is not one of the above or mine. Anyone caught post whoring will have their count reduced by me.
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efiore
Resistance Member
Don?t feel...think.
Posts: 15
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Post by efiore on May 12, 2007 14:34:18 GMT -5
Is there any thread here about Cosplay?
Cosplay - costume player ----> I know a lot of Eq fans, including me, would like to see Eq cosplays....
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Post by catalystleader on Sept 26, 2010 2:07:16 GMT -5
Does anybody know if there are any threads about Prozium and the possibility of eventually inventing this drug in real life and what it would entail? Thanks.
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Post by invisiblescientist on Sept 26, 2010 6:18:29 GMT -5
Does anybody know if there are any threads about Prozium and the ossibility of eventually inventing this drug in real life and what it would entail? Thanks. There has been some discussions about Prozium, but not very detailed unfortunately. There were many attempts to develop mind and emotion control drugs. Both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany have successfully used drugs to subdue prisoners. For example, fluoride was mixed with the water given to prisoners in Soviet and Nazi prisoner camps, for the purpose of suppressing the thyroid of the victims to make them docile, but due to the long term toxicity, probably no drugs were given to the whole population (so far.) For example, in order to make sure that prisoners do not escape, when fluoride is given to victims, this would not only weaken their will to resist authority and reduce their aggressive motivations, but it would totally weaken their muscles and brains as well, making them useless as workers. Also giving pacifying drugs to soldiers might reduce their much-needed aggressiveness. However, in the future it will probably be possible to fine-tune the drugs in such a way that like the Tetragrammaton Police officers, strong emotions will be suppressed but the muscle and brain functions necessary for work will not be reduced. Some drugs are already capable of doing this, but the long term toxicity is the issue in a democratic society. However, within another few decades if there is a more authoritarian system, this time not only the drug technology will be available, but also with new electronic surveillance that will be so much more sophisticated, it will be possible to keep track of people to make sure that nobody is skipping a dose.
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Post by Aedh on Sept 26, 2010 8:34:04 GMT -5
Does anybody know if there are any threads about Prozium and the possibility of eventually inventing this drug in real life and what it would entail? Thanks. There's this one on Prozium and Librium: Librium, the drug. Not very close though. I'm not sure it's possible since physical functions are so intimately connected to brain chemistry, which is in turn connected to emotionality. Something which would shut down emotions would, I think, also turn you into a physical wreck. That, and I don't think it would ever pass the FDA; they are approving fewer and fewer drugs these days due to increasing fears of lawsuits and liability.
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Post by invisiblescientist on Sept 26, 2010 17:42:51 GMT -5
Although it is extremely difficult to construct such a precise drug to suppress some emotions without hindering other functions, in the future this will probably become possible. The drug would have to have surgical precision in modifying only parts of the brain functions, but this is not impossible, even though science would take several decades to attain that precision. Already it is determined from brain scans that sociopaths have distinct brain chemistries, in such a way that they feel no regret when they manipulate and hurt other people for their personal gain, even though they are often successful in their endeavors. Accordingly, it will almost certainly become possible to regulate brain chemistry with high precision, but this will take a lot of time. And don't worry about FDA approving such drugs, we were talking about an authoritarian world government coming to power after WW III, and such a government will not be excessively concerned about side-effects and lawsuits.
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Post by Aedh on Sept 26, 2010 19:03:57 GMT -5
I may have to go back and re-watch THX-1138. As I recall, it was about a society in which people are all required to take emotion-suppressing drugs, and one man (the title chara) secretly goes off his dose with dramatic results. Although he is a builder of robots and not a law enforcer.
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Post by catalystleader on Oct 11, 2010 14:46:28 GMT -5
However, in the future it will probably be possible to fine-tune the drugs in such a way that like the Tetragrammaton Police officers, strong emotions will be suppressed but the muscle and brain functions necessary for work will not be reduced. Some drugs are already capable of doing this, but the long term toxicity is the issue in a democratic society. Thanks for the contribution to the topic. Its a fascinating concept to me. I was wondering, what drugs are already capable of doing this, but aren't practical because of toxicity issues? I'd like to read up more about it.
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Post by invisiblescientist on Oct 12, 2010 0:45:59 GMT -5
However, in the future it will probably be possible to fine-tune the drugs in such a way that like the Tetragrammaton Police officers, strong emotions will be suppressed but the muscle and brain functions necessary for work will not be reduced. Some drugs are already capable of doing this, but the long term toxicity is the issue in a democratic society. Thanks for the contribution to the topic. Its a fascinating concept to me. I was wondering, what drugs are already capable of doing this, but aren't practical because of toxicity issues? I'd like to read up more about it. For example, there are prescription drugs that increase the serotonin level in the brain, and these have the effect of reducing depression and anger. But these are prescribed in low dosages to avoid liver damage and also to avoid causing other forms of depression like laziness, reduction of motivation, etc. You can read about the side effects of each of these drugs from the links leading to other articles: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitorBut for a fascist state like Libria, much more powerful versions of the commercial drugs must be designed and the dosage must be increased far more than the current prescription limits. Also note that in Libria not all emotions are suppressed by prozium. For instance, the fear of death or fear of punishment is still needed by Dupont to subdue the Librians. As Father said in his speech at the beginning of Equilibrium, prozium saved humanity from the "chasms of melancholy" but the small price (in his opinion) was that the positive emotions were also suppressed. Thus a side effect is that people would have less positive emotions in Libria: you would remember how robotic the citizens looked when they were walking with Preston in the stairs at the subway station in Berlin. Actually some drugs such as centrophenoxine (already available at vitamin stores in the US even though in Europe it was considered a prescription drug for a while) increase not only the acethylcholine levels for good memory, but it also helps the serotonin levels that are helpful for being calm, and it is also beneficial as a neuro-antioxidant to slow down the aging of the brain. I have taken centrophenoxine to help my concentration and memory as the middle-aged nerd that I am, and I can say that it is helpful, as when your mind is clear, you also have less anger (as an added benefit the serotonin level is better in he case of centrophenoxine). But centrophenoxine is not extremely helpful for making you calm, it just makes you calm as an added benefit besides clear thinking. Also if you take too much, it might cause excess energy due to the rising levels of acethycholine. Another area of work for control of emotions, would be to regulate the adrenaline hormone levels as follows: by prescribing some safe drugs to support the cortisol levels, it might be possible to reduce the adrenaline levels. Normally under stress, both cortisol and adrenaline go up at the same time, but it might be possible to regulate the cortisol to help the creation of positive memories while suppressing the adrenaline. But in any case, in order to suppress anger and jealousy without causing disabilities such as laziness of workers and lack of motivation, more research is needed, because some of the drugs that stop anger are actually slowing down all the brain functions, causing drunk feeling, which is not what Dupont wants. Many of the anti-seizure drugs have the effect of making people more lazy and subdued, and at high dosages (guaranteed to destroy your liver), these drugs can be used to make people more subdued ( as the brain activity is suppressed too. ) In any case, within a few decades it is almost certain that it will be possible for governments to adjust the diet of their citizens to control emotions, reduce jealousy, anger, etc.
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Post by catalystleader on Oct 16, 2010 11:12:04 GMT -5
For example, there are prescription drugs that increase the serotonin level in the brain, and these have the effect of reducing depression and anger. But these are prescribed in low dosages to avoid liver damage and also to avoid causing other forms of depression like laziness, reduction of motivation, etc. You can read about the side effects of each of these drugs from the links leading to other articles: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitorBut for a fascist state like Libria, much more powerful versions of the commercial drugs must be designed and the dosage must be increased far more than the current prescription limits. Also note that in Libria not all emotions are suppressed by prozium. For instance, the fear of death or fear of punishment is still needed by Dupont to subdue the Librians. As Father said in his speech at the beginning of Equilibrium, prozium saved humanity from the "chasms of melancholy" but the small price (in his opinion) was that the positive emotions were also suppressed. Thus a side effect is that people would have less positive emotions in Libria: you would remember how robotic the citizens looked when they were walking with Preston in the stairs at the subway station in Berlin. Actually some drugs such as centrophenoxine (already available at vitamin stores in the US even though in Europe it was considered a prescription drug for a while) increase not only the acethylcholine levels for good memory, but it also helps the serotonin levels that are helpful for being calm, and it is also beneficial as a neuro-antioxidant to slow down the aging of the brain. I have taken centrophenoxine to help my concentration and memory as the middle-aged nerd that I am, and I can say that it is helpful, as when your mind is clear, you also have less anger (as an added benefit the serotonin level is better in he case of centrophenoxine). But centrophenoxine is not extremely helpful for making you calm, it just makes you calm as an added benefit besides clear thinking. Also if you take too much, it might cause excess energy due to the rising levels of acethycholine. Another area of work for control of emotions, would be to regulate the adrenaline hormone levels as follows: by prescribing some safe drugs to support the cortisol levels, it might be possible to reduce the adrenaline levels. Normally under stress, both cortisol and adrenaline go up at the same time, but it might be possible to regulate the cortisol to help the creation of positive memories while suppressing the adrenaline. But in any case, in order to suppress anger and jealousy without causing disabilities such as laziness of workers and lack of motivation, more research is needed, because some of the drugs that stop anger are actually slowing down all the brain functions, causing drunk feeling, which is not what Dupont wants. Many of the anti-seizure drugs have the effect of making people more lazy and subdued, and at high dosages (guaranteed to destroy your liver), these drugs can be used to make people more subdued ( as the brain activity is suppressed too. ) In any case, within a few decades it is almost certain that it will be possible for governments to adjust the diet of their citizens to control emotions, reduce jealousy, anger, etc. Thanks for that info. I misunderstood from your last post. I thought you were saying there was already a drug that suppressed all emotion, but couldn't be sustained because of toxicity issues. I see what you are saying now though. Also in regards to centrophenoxine, is there any benefit to anyone taking it who are in their early twenties? I've also read that some people could have bad reactions/side effects to it. Have you ever encountered any when first taking this? You also mention that we will probably have a Prozium drug in the next couple of decades. May I ask what you base that on precisely. I'm not doubting you or anything, I'm just curious. Also, is there anything an individual can do to help bring about a Prozium drug much more quickly, as I desperately need such a drug. Thanks.
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Post by invisiblescientist on Oct 16, 2010 23:27:39 GMT -5
Thanks for that info. I misunderstood from your last post. I thought you were saying there was already a drug that suppressed all emotion, but couldn't be sustained because of toxicity issues. I see what you are saying now though. Also in regards to centrophenoxine, is there any benefit to anyone taking it who are in their early twenties? I've also read that some people could have bad reactions/side effects to it. Have you ever encountered any when first taking this? You also mention that we will probably have a Prozium drug in the next couple of decades. May I ask what you base that on precisely. I'm not doubting you or anything, I'm just curious. Also, is there anything an individual can do to help bring about a Prozium drug much more quickly, as I desperately need such a drug. Thanks. I am sure there are already drugs that can suppress all emotion, but this can be done by mixing many drugs and raising the dosage to very high levels. Centrophenoxine could be helpful for people in their twenties even more than older people because what it does is to boost acethylcholine, which is the natural neurotransmitter necessary for memory and thinking. However, you should not take more than the recommended amount, as even salt and sugar can be deadly if you take too much. It was working better 5 years ago when I was younger, because I had more healthy brain cells. As brain cells die, no matter how much you boost the acethylcholine, this is not helpful. The main side-effect of all acethylcholine boosting drugs is that they can overload part of the nervous system, leading to a seizure if you take too much. Epileptic patients are forbidden from taking such medication that boosts acethycholine. But in any case, centrophenoxine is primarily for people with bad memory and concentration, and the calming effect is just an added benefit, not the main effect. I did not mean that there will absolutely be a prozium type drug in a few decades, I said that within a few decades the technology will be ready to make such a drug, IF the government wants it. I don't understand why you absolutely want prozium to be ready... Are you working for Dupont ;D? In any case, the kind of prozium that the Librians use, suppresses both positive and negative emotions, and thus prozium is a very crude drug, but apparently it does not suppress the fear of death or fear of punishment, which is probably a more instinctive basic emotion.
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Post by catalystleader on Oct 17, 2010 6:31:53 GMT -5
I am sure there are already drugs that can suppress all emotion, but this can be done by mixing many drugs and raising the dosage to very high levels. Centrophenoxine could be helpful for people in their twenties even more than older people because what it does is to boost acethylcholine, which is the natural neurotransmitter necessary for memory and thinking. However, you should not take more than the recommended amount, as even salt and sugar can be deadly if you take too much. It was working better 5 years ago when I was younger, because I had more healthy brain cells. As brain cells die, no matter how much you boost the acethylcholine, this is not helpful. The main side-effect of all acethylcholine boosting drugs is that they can overload part of the nervous system, leading to a seizure if you take too much. Epileptic patients are forbidden from taking such medication that boosts acethycholine. But in any case, centrophenoxine is primarily for people with bad memory and concentration, and the calming effect is just an added benefit, not the main effect. I did not mean that there will absolutely be a prism type drug in a few decades, I said that within a few decades the technology will be ready to make such a drug, IF the government wants it. I don't understand why you absolutely want prism to be ready... Are you working for Dupont ;D? In any case, the kind of prism that the Librians use, suppresses both positive and negative emotions, and thus prism is a very crude drug, but apparently it does not suppress the fear of death or fear of punishment, which is probably a more instinctive basic emotion. Because I believe in the state of Libria. I believe it to be superior to what we have today and I think that humanity would be better off, because emotions serve no useful purpose. Without emotions there would only be logic and discipline and with these humanity can progress greatly. Also, what in the movie exactly makes you believe that fear is not suppressed in the state of Libria?
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Post by Aedh on Oct 17, 2010 9:40:08 GMT -5
Also, what in the movie exactly makes you believe that fear is not suppressed in the state of Libria? To pick two examples at random ... Robbie Preston "saw Robbie Taylor crying to-day" at school. And then, soon after, there was the reaction of Viviana Preston at the unexpected entrance of the Sweepers to their flat.
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Post by catalystleader on Oct 17, 2010 14:43:17 GMT -5
Also, what in the movie exactly makes you believe that fear is not suppressed in the state of Libria? To pick two examples at random ... Robbie Preston "saw Robbie Taylor crying to-day" at school. And then, soon after, there was the reaction of Viviana Preston at the unexpected entrance of the Sweepers to their flat. Yes, but this is presumably, because they had ceased their dosages of Prozium, no? I would also cite this example from the transcript: -Preston- I'm gonna ask you one more time. Errol Partridge -- What do you know about him? -Reading Room Proprietor- I'm sure this must be some mis-- -Preston- You're an offender. -Reading Room Proprietor- I'm not. -Preston- No? Then why are you so scared of me? Now you will tell me everything you know about Errol Partridge,or I will have a wagon come to take you to the Hall of Destruction for summary combustion. (Does this not imply that fear is an emotion and is an EC-10 offense?)
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Post by Aedh on Oct 17, 2010 17:28:45 GMT -5
(Does this not imply that fear is an emotion and is an EC-10 offense?) Yes, exactly. If the Reading Room proprietor is 'scared' in Preston's words, then he feels fear. Fear is not suppressed. QED.
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Post by Mirabilis on Oct 17, 2010 17:35:51 GMT -5
Because I believe in the state of Libria. I believe it to be superior to what we have today and I think that humanity would be better off, because emotions serve no useful purpose. Without emotions there would only be logic and discipline and with these humanity can progress greatly. But progress toward what? "Without love, without anger, without sorrow, breath is just a clock ticking." Have you considered moving to North Korea? ;D
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Post by invisiblescientist on Oct 17, 2010 18:00:13 GMT -5
(Does this not imply that fear is an emotion and is an EC-10 offense?) Yes, exactly. If the Reading Room proprietor is 'scared' in Preston's words, then he feels fear. Fear is not suppressed. QED. What catalystleader is trying to say is that in his opinion, prozium, when taken regularly as the laws of Libria dictate, would suppress even fear, and in particular, the fear of death. This does make sense, as some anti-anxiety drugs that boost serotonin would also reduce the fear of dangerous situations. He does have a point, but the instinct of self-preservation is such a powerful human feature that it is more than just a simple emotion like jealousy or anger at the personal level, and so even without extreme fear, the draconian laws of Libria somehow force the citizens to perceive a certain something when their lives depend on these rules, even if they are regularly taking prozium. It is also possible that those who start taking prozium, are so much at peace with themselves that they do not even feel any fear of punishment, and so perhaps the brutal incineration at the Hall of Destruction, and interrogation by the technicians at the Palace of Justice, are designed to intimidate those who are already sense-offenders who have skipped one or two doses of prozium, or at least to intimidate the hardened sense-offenders so that they would not go as far as joining the Underground even if they are individual offenders. But my original point is that there are several forms of emotion, and some emotions overlap with instincts, and other emotions are more connected with intellect-based ego, while other emotions are more in the realm of the heart. So it is possible that prozium does not totally suppress those emotions that are connected with basic survival instincts.
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