New Movie Suggestions For Kurt Wimmer

[invisiblescientist]

It has been suggested in this forum by the senior member clericjay, that it might be possible for the Equilibrium fans to make suggestions for new movies, collectively building movie ideas and details that Kurt Wimmer can use.

This is a VERY good idea, and since this website exists, the infrastructure for such a project is ready. We just need to contribute.

We already know from Equilibrium that Wimmer has considerable talent for alternate reality movies with complex intrigue. We can present various movie ideas here, and he might choose to develop these with our suggestions.

The only danger is that other rivals might steal the ideas from here. So my suggestion is that Wimmer should establish another website so that he can directly receive email from people who want to contribute ideas, so that the emails that are sent to him cannot be seen by others.

I have already identified two science fiction novels that represent great opportunities for alternate reality movies, but I worry that once I mention these ideas here, rivals of Wimmer might use these ideas.

Is there a way to reach Kurt Wimmer's representatives to establish such a protocol for sending ideas that can lead to collectively developed movies under his direction?

[invisiblescientist]

Here is a forgotten and underrated old novel of Robert Heinlein: "If This Goes On" (from his book "Revolt in 2100").

This story by Robert Heinlein seems to be a great opportunity for Kurt Wimmer if he can make a film. The plot involves a tyrannical Christian fundamentalist dictator who comes to power in the United States during the 21st century as a reaction to a terrorist attack. This draconian dictator calls himself "Prophet", and he establishes such a dynasty that will rule the US. There is a revolt started by The Underground, in an effort to overthrow the Prophet.

I really think this book is very relevant for future Kurt Wimmer movies:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_This_Goes_On%E2%80%94

Plot

The story is set in a future theocratic American society, ruled by the latest in a series of “Prophets.” The First Prophet was Nehemiah Scudder, a backwoods preacher turned President (elected in 2012), then dictator (no elections were held in 2016 or later).

John Lyle, a junior army officer under the Prophet, is stationed at the Prophet's capital of New Jerusalem. Devout at this point, he finds himself questioning his faith when he falls for one of the Prophet's Virgins, Sister Judith. Judith, new to the vocation, faints when she is called upon to render sexual service to the Prophet and is confined to her quarters until she sees the light. He confides in his far more worldly roommate, Zeb Jones, who is not only not shocked, but who assists John. A clandestine meeting with Judith goes awry when they are forced to kill a spy, leaving them no choice but to seek aid from the Cabal, an underground revolutionary movement (Judith's friend, Sister Magdalene, is a member). The two men are inducted into the Cabal, while remaining on duty in their army posts. Judith is arrested and tortured as part of the investigation into the death of the spy, and John and Zeb rescue her, though leaving enough clues that John is soon arrested and tortured himself. He gives little away, and is himself rescued by the Cabal. Zeb and Magdalene have evaded arrest, thanks to a clandestine distress signal that John manages to leave for Zeb while being arrested.

Judith is spirited out of the country before John regains consciousness, and John is given a false identity in order to make his way to Cabal headquarters. He is detected en route, forced to flee, and arrives safely after several misadventures. He finds that Zeb and Magdalene, who he assumes are a couple, have made their way there before him. All take on significant roles in bringing to fruition the revolutionary plot, John as an aide to the commander, General Huxley.

While working there, John receives a literal "Dear John" letter from Judith, informing him of her impending marriage to another man. He learns that Zeb and Magdalene have no marriage plans, and begins a romance with Magdalene.

The revolutionary plot is mostly successful, and the country, other than New Jerusalem, is seized. But the capital must also be conquered lest it serve as a rallying point for loyalists. Even as constitutional discussions go on, tempered to provide the greatest possible individual freedom (this is the origin of the 'Covenant' mentioned in other Heinlein works), the new regime's troops prepare to take New Jerusalem. John and Magdalene are married just before the assault.

During the fight, Huxley is wounded, and John must take over temporary command, though not entitled by rank to do so. He gives the orders that bring victory. He then turns over command to the senior unwounded general, and leads a squad invading the Prophet's private quarters. They find that he has been messily killed by his own Virgins.

[invisiblescientist]

Here is another potentially great science fiction movie plot for Kurt Wimmer, based on Robert Heinlein's novel "Orphans of the Sky". In this novel there is a city-sized giant spaceship sent to colonize a distant planet in another galaxy, and because the distance is enormous, the ship is populated with thousands of inhabitants that will stay in space for many generations until they reach this planet. But there is a mutiny and catastrophe on the ship and the governing captain and high ranking officers die in that event. As a result, the civilization on the ship declines and future generations become a superstitious nation that think that the world is their ship. There are many power struggles and intrigue in this environment, and it is very intense. This book influenced my childhood.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky

Characters and story
At the beginning of the story, the gigantic, cylindrical generation ship Vanguard, originally destined for Proxima Centauri, is cruising pilotless through the interstellar medium as a result of a mutiny that killed all the piloting officers. Over time, the descendants of the surviving loyal crew have forgotten the purpose and nature of their ship and lapsed into a pre-technological culture marked by superstition, wherein the word "Ship" is become a synonym of "cosmos", so that "To move the ship" is considered an oxymoron, and references to the Ship's "voyage" are interpreted as metaphor. They are ruled by an oligarchy of "Officers" and "Scientists", whose head is the putative heir of or successor to the original captain. Most crew members lead a simple illiterate life of agriculture, seldom or never venturing to the "upper decks" where the "muties" (an abbreviation of "mutants" or "mutineers") dwell.

The story centers upon an intelligent and curious young man, Hugh Hoyland, who is early in adulthood selected as an apprentice of the Scientists, who ritualistically perform the technical tasks operating the Ship (such as entering trash into its energy-converter for lighting and environmental control) while ignorant of their true functions. On a mission to hunt muties, Hugh is captured and becomes the slave of Joe-Jim Gregory, the two-headed leader of a powerful mutie gang, who later reveal the Ship's true nature and purpose to Hugh.

Having become convinced of the Ship's true purpose, Hugh convinces Joe-Jim to complete the Vanguard's mission of reaching its intended destination (preserved in fable as "Far Centaurus"), and returns to the lower levels of the Ship to convince others to help him; but is arrested by his former boss Bill Ertz and sentenced to death. While in his cell, Hugh persuades his old friend Alan Mahoney to enlist Joe-Jim's gang in rescuing him; and sometime after having been rescued, reveals the proof of his assertions to Bill and Alan. Bill then goes to convince the captain's aide, Phineas Narby, to join Hugh's effort.

Inspired by one of Joe-Jim's books, The Three Musketeers, the protagonists create swords superior to any weapons present in the lower Ship and and overthrow the Captain, later to install Phineas as Captain, Joe-Jim as Vice-Captain, Bill as Chief Engineer, and Hugh himself as astrogator. When Phineas is secure in his position, he launches an attack to rid the Ship of muties once and for all. Joe is killed in the fighting; whereupon Jim sacrifices himself to hold off their pursuers long enough for Hugh, Bill, Alan, and their wives to retreat to a lifeboat left by the Ship's builders, wherein they leave the Ship and land on the inhabitable moon of a gas giant, which they explore and colonize.
[edit] Reception

Avram Davidson described Orphans as "a modern classic," praising "the magnitude and magnificence of Orphans' concepts" despite expressing disappointment in "the limitations of its conclusion"[1].

[Aedh]

Two thoughts ... I hope I don't sound unduly negative!

The way you sum up "Orphans In The Sky," it sounds quite like "Pandorum ... " One would have to be careful to avoid that. Mr Wimmer has already been burned by uncalled-for comparisons of EQ with "The Matrix ..."

As for "If This Goes On," it might be a good idea, but personally I find the notion of the United States being taken over by a Christian fundamentalist dictator almost as ludicrous as the Christian fundamentalist dictator of "V For Vendetta." With the US being so evenly divided in many ways, I find it hard to realistically picture any sort of dictator taking over here. I think the nation would fragment into several autonomous regions, "Ecotopia" style. (Or ... "Queen City" style! )

[invisiblescientist]

Mar 24, 2012 10:01:52 GMT -5 Aedh said:

Two thoughts ... I hope I don't sound unduly negative!

The way you sum up "Orphans In The Sky," it sounds quite like "Pandorum ... " One would have to be careful to avoid that. Mr Wimmer has already been burned by uncalled-for comparisons of EQ with "The Matrix ..."

As for "If This Goes On," it might be a good idea, but personally I find the notion of the United States being taken over by a Christian fundamentalist dictator almost as ludicrous as the Christian fundamentalist dictator of "V For Vendetta." With the US being so evenly divided in many ways, I find it hard to realistically picture any sort of dictator taking over here. I think the nation would fragment into several autonomous regions, "Ecotopia" style. (Or ... "Queen City" style! )

1) Yes, I have seen "Pandorum", but although I agree that there are some similarities with Orphans of the Sky" (and there are many science fiction films with such themes), the environment that Heinlein constructs has unique qualities. "Pandorum" is a claustrophobic movie (perhaps the main theme), while "Orphans of the Sky" is very different, it is just the opposite, and social issues are studied also, civilization breaks down and there is primitivism, power struggles, etc. Also the style of Heinlein is unique.

2) Right now there is fragmentation in the US, but if a fascist dictator comes to power, he would change the educational system and make the country more uniform. In Heinlein's book, the society is divided into classes, so that there is also a "Pariah" class of people who are not devout followers of the government. (Thus the division, but in the government's terms.) In any case, in Heinlein's book, the dictatorship is established after a certain cataclysmic event in the US (major terrorist event) that changes the situation. I am sure you will agree that if terrorists nuke 10 American cities and also start a genetically engineered epidemic that kills 50 million citizens before it is brought under control, then most Americans would agree that the the new military government has the right to restrict a lot of personal freedom and even control the educational system. And once the government gains arbitrary powers to restrict everything, it is almost guaranteed that the corruption will be such that there will be a new direction most people had not expected. For example, the Iranian theocracy came to power by lying to the leftists and democrats who were trying to overthrow the Shah, by making a temporary alliance with the leftists, and once the Shah was eliminated, this time a theocracy was established at the expense of the leftists and democrats. In any case, you can even argue that "If This Goes On" book of Heinlein is already similar to Equilibrium.

[clericjay]

Suggesting this I didn't really think of suggesting these ideas to Mr. Wimmer...
Though he really might be ghosting around the boards (would be kind of cool... ) I think it's rather unlikely he'd take suggestions from our side as he is a very good author on his own.

_{If it'd happen I wouldn't bother and I guess none of you would...}

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think we've got quite some talented writers on the board (obviously sharing some basic sense of taste due to our love for EQ...), so we could develop something own, whether it might be another EQ script, TV-series, another sci-fi movie, a short movie or something completely else.

_{A Short movie might be realizable by ourself in some cases...}

Maybe it's unrealistic and I'm dreaming a little, but the guys making Iron Sky did it somehow as well. So why couldn't we?
I'd love to create a script here we might present to producers and if not, we still had some fun writing together...

Am I alone in that?

[invisiblescientist]

I was only suggesting general ideas. Namely the two books of Robert Heinlein mentioned above.

Like all movie directors, Kurt Wimmer was also influenced and inspired by previous science-fiction books. For example, Equilibrium was strongly influenced by "Fahrenheit 451" where the government burns all literature books. In fact, the Mona Lisa painting was burned in Fahrenheit 451 exactly as in Equilibrium.

Here is the book:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451

And here is a trailer from the movie version of Fahrenheit 451:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9n98SXNGl8

[clericjay]

Apr 29, 2012 23:04:08 GMT -5 invisiblescientist said:

Like all movie directors, Kurt Wimmer was also influenced and inspired by previous science-fiction books. For example, Equilibrium was strongly influenced by "Fahrenheit 451" where the government burns all literature books. In fact, the Mona Lisa painting was burned in Fahrenheit 451 exactly as in Equilibrium.

You're right...


_{We read about Fahrenheit 451 in our English lessons and saw it performed in English on stage in Berlin. The similarities were striking, though to me personally EQ does appeal more...}