Post by ClericRyan on Mar 30, 2006 11:11:00 GMT -5
Hello all Gun Kata people
This post is long and detailed, but if you like gun kata as much as I do, you might enjoy some of the points I make. I orginally posted this a couple years ago, but felt like bringing it back since it was sort of hidden in someone elses thread.
First off, Let me say I am by no means a firearms expert, although I have fired over a dozen different handguns at the shooting range, and many rifles and the two main military assault riffles(ak47 and m16)
My expertise lies in the area of martial arts, mainly the Japanese schools, however I have a fair amount of knowledge about all forms of hand to hand combat. I am also Duponts homeboy but that is another story.
Il try to keep this short but my posts have a tendency to be long so, patience may be required here for reading.
First off, just to define Gun Kata: It is a fictional form of combat using guns, but focusing on the precision movements and stances( or kata) of a martial art.
Now i realize that is not a direct and perfect definition, I suppose only Wimmer himself could give it a perfect definition since he was the individual who invented this fictional combat.
It is not a true martial art as the definition of martial arts is far more specific to a lack of any projectile weapons, or rather a focus on hand to hand combat.
Martial Arts
Def 1
Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural.
Def 2
Any of several Oriental arts of weaponless self-defense; usually practiced as a sport
That being said, it is important to know that many fictional forms of martial arts exist as well. Usually seen in fighting video games like street fighter and mortal kombat.
However the main question that I want to address is how realistic or feasible Gun Kata is, one has to also examine how realistic these "fictional" martial art/combat techniques are.
One example I wil give for this point would be something Im sure everyone has seen in many kung fu/martial art/asian action films.
The super jump, or fly kick, or wall jump/flip. You know when the hero does a 6 foot jump kick near the end of the fight ussualy.
We have all seen this many times, usually in higher budget films that can afford to do good wire work. A common argument on many martial art forums is :
Could a move like this ever be preformed in real life/reality.
As all arguments go, there is only opinion to really go on. However it is widely excepted among many martial art enthusiasts that such maneuvers or similar ones COULD be preformed by a master of Kung Fu or Karate, and possibly some other of the more ancient forms.
The highest vertical jump ever recorded is, the world record high jump by Javier Sotomayor of Cuba with a jump of 2.45meters , just over 8 feet vertical height. in the Olympics
The longest jump was recorded by American D.Powel at 8.95 meters , that’s 29.36 feet. Also anyone who watches pro basketball, knows for a fact that a 4 - 6 vertical jump is not even that rare at all.
Now granted that this is not a direct comparison, but we are discussing the feasibility and realistic marit of human physical abilities so it is only right we examine and consider the proper world records.
There are some things to consider when you think about how this relates to martial art. The main thing being that neither of these world record holders were martial artists. In fact they had trained their entire lives in order to set the records they did. What you must then understand is that even those athletic champions, did not train as hard or as intensively that the great master martial artists did and are said to have done in ancient times.
This all relates to the world(universe) of Equilibrium
Sure by today’s standards they were at the height of intense phiscal training, how ever in Far Eastern history with literally no distractions at all, no entertainment, very basic but nutritious diets and absolutly no other responsibilities other then to become the best possible fighter they can be. This type of dedication does not exist in our society today, since most of have far too many options and possibilities at our finger tips at all times, and all of us have an incredible amount of distractions and entertainment literally force fed to us.
In any event, it is in fact feasible then for someone who had spent their entire life training intensly, WOULD be able to perform maneuvers that would seem impossible.
And so we come to gun kata AND (this is extremely important) the world of EQ, since that is the fictional universe it was created in, first we must examine its feasibility in its native universe.
A Grammaton Cleric would need such extensive training, you might be able to compare it to the training that ancient martial art masters would have to go through. A comparable training program to a large extent because of the lack of any entertainment, and the emotional constraints and medication (Prozium) that would undoubtedly be required of a cleric in training, considering the universe.
I know this has become a long post, so let me try and sum up what my point is. It is no secret that humans only use a small capacity of their mental and physical potential. That being said, it is quite obviously feasible that given the right training and circumstance, a person would be able to do things that most of us would classify as impossible.
Regardless of how you feel about Darwinism, it is also no secret that in combat of any kind, the strong predominantly survive, of course excluding modern warfare of smart bombs and machine guns.
However, if a person trained Gun Kata to the point of mastering it, there would come a time when their skills would require real testing.
If you imagined a grammaton training centre, you would have to assume that high level training would require live ammunition, and in that case the selection process would be extensive, to the point that many, I would say up to 75% of Gun Kata prefects would be killed just in the training.
However if one was able to survive that type of training and learn the forms and kata to the point that ancient martial art masters would achieve, then I do believe that not only is Gun Kata possible, but it would be almost impossible for a gun kata master to loose a gun fight vs. a person who was not a master. As it would be nearly impossible for a Master Martial artist to be defeated in hand to hand combat by someone who was not also a master of martial art.
Some of the points that were brought up about the challenges gun kata would face are very valid. "lack of sight and accuracy. firing a handgun requires 2 hands when wanting to have dead on precision, plus a line of sight to target. " Posted by Pyro
Also it was mentioned that pistol discharges close to your head or face can be extremely dangerous, however performing a fly kick off a 3 meter drop would also be extremely dangerous to a martial artist not trained extensively.
Another point was made about recoil, as this would be another challenge. As for modern day hand guns, there are a few ways to reduce that recoil, and as tech. improves you will soon seen recoilless handguns.
Of course in EQ they use futuristic guns that do not exist in our modern day world, however we are close to developing similar weapons. I realize that replicas have been made, however I am not talking about a replica.
And so that is the end of this post... finally, hope someone out there actually read the whole thing. My point is quite simple: not only is Gun Kata possible, but it would be almost impossible for a gun kata master to loose a gun fight agenst a person who was not a master.
This post is long and detailed, but if you like gun kata as much as I do, you might enjoy some of the points I make. I orginally posted this a couple years ago, but felt like bringing it back since it was sort of hidden in someone elses thread.
First off, Let me say I am by no means a firearms expert, although I have fired over a dozen different handguns at the shooting range, and many rifles and the two main military assault riffles(ak47 and m16)
My expertise lies in the area of martial arts, mainly the Japanese schools, however I have a fair amount of knowledge about all forms of hand to hand combat. I am also Duponts homeboy but that is another story.
Il try to keep this short but my posts have a tendency to be long so, patience may be required here for reading.
First off, just to define Gun Kata: It is a fictional form of combat using guns, but focusing on the precision movements and stances( or kata) of a martial art.
Now i realize that is not a direct and perfect definition, I suppose only Wimmer himself could give it a perfect definition since he was the individual who invented this fictional combat.
It is not a true martial art as the definition of martial arts is far more specific to a lack of any projectile weapons, or rather a focus on hand to hand combat.
Martial Arts
Def 1
Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural.
Def 2
Any of several Oriental arts of weaponless self-defense; usually practiced as a sport
That being said, it is important to know that many fictional forms of martial arts exist as well. Usually seen in fighting video games like street fighter and mortal kombat.
However the main question that I want to address is how realistic or feasible Gun Kata is, one has to also examine how realistic these "fictional" martial art/combat techniques are.
One example I wil give for this point would be something Im sure everyone has seen in many kung fu/martial art/asian action films.
The super jump, or fly kick, or wall jump/flip. You know when the hero does a 6 foot jump kick near the end of the fight ussualy.
We have all seen this many times, usually in higher budget films that can afford to do good wire work. A common argument on many martial art forums is :
Could a move like this ever be preformed in real life/reality.
As all arguments go, there is only opinion to really go on. However it is widely excepted among many martial art enthusiasts that such maneuvers or similar ones COULD be preformed by a master of Kung Fu or Karate, and possibly some other of the more ancient forms.
The highest vertical jump ever recorded is, the world record high jump by Javier Sotomayor of Cuba with a jump of 2.45meters , just over 8 feet vertical height. in the Olympics
The longest jump was recorded by American D.Powel at 8.95 meters , that’s 29.36 feet. Also anyone who watches pro basketball, knows for a fact that a 4 - 6 vertical jump is not even that rare at all.
Now granted that this is not a direct comparison, but we are discussing the feasibility and realistic marit of human physical abilities so it is only right we examine and consider the proper world records.
There are some things to consider when you think about how this relates to martial art. The main thing being that neither of these world record holders were martial artists. In fact they had trained their entire lives in order to set the records they did. What you must then understand is that even those athletic champions, did not train as hard or as intensively that the great master martial artists did and are said to have done in ancient times.
This all relates to the world(universe) of Equilibrium
Sure by today’s standards they were at the height of intense phiscal training, how ever in Far Eastern history with literally no distractions at all, no entertainment, very basic but nutritious diets and absolutly no other responsibilities other then to become the best possible fighter they can be. This type of dedication does not exist in our society today, since most of have far too many options and possibilities at our finger tips at all times, and all of us have an incredible amount of distractions and entertainment literally force fed to us.
In any event, it is in fact feasible then for someone who had spent their entire life training intensly, WOULD be able to perform maneuvers that would seem impossible.
And so we come to gun kata AND (this is extremely important) the world of EQ, since that is the fictional universe it was created in, first we must examine its feasibility in its native universe.
A Grammaton Cleric would need such extensive training, you might be able to compare it to the training that ancient martial art masters would have to go through. A comparable training program to a large extent because of the lack of any entertainment, and the emotional constraints and medication (Prozium) that would undoubtedly be required of a cleric in training, considering the universe.
I know this has become a long post, so let me try and sum up what my point is. It is no secret that humans only use a small capacity of their mental and physical potential. That being said, it is quite obviously feasible that given the right training and circumstance, a person would be able to do things that most of us would classify as impossible.
Regardless of how you feel about Darwinism, it is also no secret that in combat of any kind, the strong predominantly survive, of course excluding modern warfare of smart bombs and machine guns.
However, if a person trained Gun Kata to the point of mastering it, there would come a time when their skills would require real testing.
If you imagined a grammaton training centre, you would have to assume that high level training would require live ammunition, and in that case the selection process would be extensive, to the point that many, I would say up to 75% of Gun Kata prefects would be killed just in the training.
However if one was able to survive that type of training and learn the forms and kata to the point that ancient martial art masters would achieve, then I do believe that not only is Gun Kata possible, but it would be almost impossible for a gun kata master to loose a gun fight vs. a person who was not a master. As it would be nearly impossible for a Master Martial artist to be defeated in hand to hand combat by someone who was not also a master of martial art.
Some of the points that were brought up about the challenges gun kata would face are very valid. "lack of sight and accuracy. firing a handgun requires 2 hands when wanting to have dead on precision, plus a line of sight to target. " Posted by Pyro
Also it was mentioned that pistol discharges close to your head or face can be extremely dangerous, however performing a fly kick off a 3 meter drop would also be extremely dangerous to a martial artist not trained extensively.
Another point was made about recoil, as this would be another challenge. As for modern day hand guns, there are a few ways to reduce that recoil, and as tech. improves you will soon seen recoilless handguns.
Of course in EQ they use futuristic guns that do not exist in our modern day world, however we are close to developing similar weapons. I realize that replicas have been made, however I am not talking about a replica.
And so that is the end of this post... finally, hope someone out there actually read the whole thing. My point is quite simple: not only is Gun Kata possible, but it would be almost impossible for a gun kata master to loose a gun fight agenst a person who was not a master.
;D 
