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Post by rohan on Aug 9, 2003 1:46:43 GMT -5
Sorry I had to start another Gun Swap post coz reading the whole 6 page thread made me even more confused.  Face it guys. Nobody's perfect. The gun swap is an editing mistake/plot hole. Dont get me wrong, I dont care about it, I love the movie just the same. Here are the screen caps in sequence... First, at the Dog massacre scene, Preston hands Brandt a gun... (Lets not say whos gun it is yet) Scene 01:  ...since shortly after he goes on KILLING these poor blokes... (So lets conlude he did swap the guns) Scene 02:  Then at the duel scene Brandt tells Preston to get ready for another raid, And Preston messes it up by beating the guards, NOT killing them... (But we cant say he couldnt kill since he already did at Scene 02... ) Scene 03:  Then he hands another gun to Brandt... ( Scene 04  Which is the scene that is flashed when Brandt gets arrested for "incineration" So I think the mistake here is that the scene that should have been flashed was this: Scene 01 and NOT Fix that, then everything makes sense. Also The "You see, I have his gun now" part:  sould be removed so it can be concluded that Brandt DID get Prestons gun when he arrested him... which closes the hole when Brandt's face show up on Duponts screen:  20tracer.gif We can just say that the Gun Butting scene didnt mean he could kill guards but perhaps just to keep it quiet coz Brandt was sumwhere near... Sorry I had to start another Gun Swap post coz reading the whole 6 page thread made me even more confused. Oh and If Im wrong please correct me and feel free to use the scenes to clear things out. |
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Post by JenGe on Aug 9, 2003 8:33:21 GMT -5
Sorry I had to start another Gun Swap post coz reading the whole 6 page thread made me even more confused... You do realize that I may have to hurt you now...Apologies won't save you...(evil grin ;D) |
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mwfte
Sense Offender
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Post by mwfte on Aug 9, 2003 21:26:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I think you're exactly right. I do think though, that the whole "I have his gun now" thing is perfectly all right and makes sense. Or maybe not. Whatever.
But I think they did plan that Preston switch the gun when Brandt wanted him to execute the offenders. That's what the "I have his gun" converstaion implies. And I don't think they would have shot it so that it was so obvious that he had two guns and was handing back a gun in his other hand.
But why on earth would he switch the guns then after he listened to Beethoven? Did he plan on wiping out a whole lot of enforcers?
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Post by pyro on Aug 10, 2003 16:58:34 GMT -5
for another raid, And Preston messes it up by beating the guards, NOT killing them... (But we cant say he couldnt kill since he already did at Scene 02... ) Scene 03: preston kills those sweepers [watch how the butt of the gun goes through the face shield and blood splashes out] |
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Xyon
Resistance Member
Bestest
Posts: 35
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Post by Xyon on Aug 10, 2003 19:46:56 GMT -5
Sorry I had to start another Gun Swap post coz reading the whole 6 page thread made me even more confused. Face it guys. Nobody's perfect. The gun swap is an editing mistake/plot hole. Dont get me wrong, I dont care about it, I love the movie just the same. Here are the screen caps in sequence... First, at the Dog massacre scene, Preston hands Brandt a gun... (Lets not say whos gun it is yet) Scene 01: ...since shortly after he goes on KILLING these poor blokes... (So lets conlude he did swap the guns) Scene 02: Then at the duel scene Brandt tells Preston to get ready for another raid, And Preston messes it up by beating the guards, NOT killing them... (But we cant say he couldnt kill since he already did at Scene 02... ) Scene 03: Then he hands another gun to Brandt... ( Scene 04 Which is the scene that is flashed when Brandt gets arrested for "incineration" So I think the mistake here is that the scene that should have been flashed was this: Scene 01 and NOT Fix that, then everything makes sense. Also The "You see, I have his gun now" part: sould be removed so it can be concluded that Brandt DID get Prestons gun when he arrested him... which closes the hole when Brandt's face show up on Duponts screen: 20tracer.gif We can just say that the Gun Butting scene didnt mean he could kill guards but perhaps just to keep it quiet coz Brandt was sumwhere near... Sorry I had to start another Gun Swap post coz reading the whole 6 page thread made me even more confused. Oh and If Im wrong please correct me and feel free to use the scenes to clear things out. Was watching the movie fresh after a few months, and i picked up that this is where it was meant to happen, You can get away with flashing the other scene i spose, since its where they swap back. Either way it doesnt matter, and didnt someone say that if wimmer makes a special edition DVD it will all be fixed? |
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Post by JenGe on Aug 10, 2003 19:54:15 GMT -5
Someone speculated on that but I highly doubt it since so far Wimmer hasn't said that it was a mistake. I like what GunKata Sensei said on the other thread... Sorry to burst your bubble but that theory of the gun swap being a mistake is itself a mistake. Preston shoots the sweeper team because he has to. Later, in the factory raid he beats to death the other soldiers as opposed to killing them 'cos he knows that he would then certainly be traced via the bullets and his verifiable presence at the location (with the previous sweeper team he can always so he was elsewhere and how would anyone say otherwise). In the execution scene, Brandt gives Preston the perfect opportunity for Preston to get rid of his own gun. Hence, 1. saves dog 2. goes out to Nether to get rid of dog 3. sweeper team arrives and gets shot 4. raid on factory 5. Preston beats to death a bunch of guys knowing his bullets have already been found in other Librian soldiers but this time, he is at the scene in front of others. 6. Preston takes the oportunity given to him by Brandt to switch the guns. therefore - no hole in the script. |
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mwfte
Sense Offender
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Post by mwfte on Aug 10, 2003 22:30:47 GMT -5
But if he had his gun the whole time when he was shooting sweepers and smashing them, his gun would have been the one found on the trace.
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Post by ClericRyan on Aug 11, 2003 7:58:51 GMT -5
That explanation sounds good, but in the end, Clerics carry two guns so its hard to figure how that is explained, However, the main thing here is that Dupont/Brandt were on to Preston, so they were letting him get away with murder and sense offence so he would lead them to the underground, so the gun swap is really not that important, since it was all a set up in the words of father "Brandts job was simple, to make you feel like you had won"
therefore, the gun swap is really a null argument since its not as though Preston actually tricked anyone.
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Post by rohan on Aug 11, 2003 10:47:47 GMT -5
But it would be much much better if the movie left you without any questions....
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Post by JenGe on Aug 11, 2003 10:55:16 GMT -5
But it would be much much better if the movie left you without any questions.... No, no, no!! You got that all wrong. The best movies are the ones that DO leave you with questions. "But why...how...??" I absolutely hate those filmmakers that feel they have to tie up all loose ends and leave absolutely nothing interesting to discuss after a film is all over. A puzzle waiting to be solved. Of course this is just my hum. op... please feel free to differ... |
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Post by ClericRyan on Aug 11, 2003 10:57:58 GMT -5
No Im with you Jen
But stil, the gun swap is null because they were "PLAYING" Preston to find the underground. It was all part of fathers plan
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Post by rohan on Aug 11, 2003 22:45:01 GMT -5
No Jenge Im with you too, what I meant was that films shouldnt confuse and shouldnt leave you scratching your heads wondering "how the-?" or "what the-?" heck happened. But still Id choose Equilibrium over the Matrix. hah! Equilibrium rocks! Now I know y'all agree with me on that. |
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