Re: More Yin than Yang

[JenGe]

Wow!! Very, very nice!!! Sorry that it took me sometime to read it but my life has been insane lately.

I'll add it to things I have to link to on the site...It might take me a few days.

[Amie]

I really like your writing style, Brother Bishop! The cleric's character is very vivid in my mind. Will there be more?? I hope so! ;D

[Brother Bishop]

I've been kicked off the internet, expect a HUGE installment later in the week.

[JenGe]

A link to this thread has been added to the Fan Fic page on the site...

www.freewebs.com/equilibrium-movie/EQ-FanFiction.htm

[Amie]

Wow, Brother Bishop!! I love the emotions erupting from the cleric!

Please write more! ;D

[Amie]

Your depiction of the clerics is riveting, BB. You've got me hooked! ;D

More, please! ;D

[Brother Bishop]

I have a lot of finals coming up and i'm really stretched out to the limit. It doesn't help that i'm lazy. I'm thinking about ending this prematurely, unless people would rather see me complete it to the end.

[mawa]

*wonders from where to start*

As a response for your question, since I understand that that lack of comments can be discouraging, I decided comment on the whole story you've written so far. My impression could be expressed in following words:

This story needs a lot of work.

There are many things you should take into consideration.

First: many sentences sound awkward even for a non-native English speaker like me ( the very first paragraph, for instance ). Let's take some examples from there:

The Cleric’s eye turned to look at the fog for half a moment, before looking into the woman’s eyes via the mirror. - Why not simply say "The Cleric looked"? The message is the same and this would be this clearer. Besides, "via" means "through". You probably meant that he saw her eyes in the mirror. But "via" indicates that the mirror is transparent and that the woman stood on the other side of it.

She felt her arm up against her back, and her face pressing against the cold surface of the mirror that was behind her. - If her face was pressing against the mirror, there is no such possibility that the mirror was behind her. I tried that myself: no bloody chance this could happen.

The slap came towards the cheek of Grammaton Cleric P Bishop, and thus his left arm came up to intercept the woman’s arm with deadly precision. - I understand that you tried to capture the dynamics of this particular scene, but this sounds rather bizarre. Cleric caught the woman's arm as she tried to slap him across the face , while still lacking, would serve its purpose, methinks.

That was the first paragraph only.

In general, I see you attempt to use sophisticated descriptions, while lacking necessary still. My advice is: for starters, try constructing something simplier. Not too simple, mind you. The reader ought to have the idea and mental image of what is happening.

As for ideas - there are some things I would advise you to reconsider:

First: So far I don't see anything new here, maybe apart from the snipers. The first scene is blatantly taken from EQ ( we all know about which scene I'm talking about ) and that doesn't give a good impression.

Second: as far as my evil side liked the final outcome of the scene between Carter and his wife I actually wonder how on earth an untrained woman would manage to take Carter's Prozium and destroy all of it before he could react. Not to mention that the fact that one of the best Clerics goes completely mental after missing a single dose raises a question about the quality of clerical training ( after all, it's not only about swinging their guns ).

Third: What's the timeline of this story? I ask, since - for my taste - it's rather unlikely that a world which raises itself from the destruction inflicted by WWIII has a fully-functioning global satellite(!) monitoring system. I'm rather tolerant when it comes to technical visions, but here my suspension of disbelief just doesn't work. I actually fell off my chair laughing during the scene, where Father called Cleric Bishop asking whether he's not in the gun battle. Well, if he was I doubt he'd have time to pick up the phone. Some basics of probability must be maintained.

The good news is that this story, if rewritten and reconsidered, could turn into a decent read. I'm not telling you should quit writing. I encourage you to continue, in order to practice your style, so that your next pieces are better. As for style practicing: reading the other fan-fictions on this site can be very helpful. I'd recommend the works of following authors:

- Libby
- Coolhand
- JudasFM
- ClericWolf ( although his fictions may be difficult to get into at first )
- Cleric Amie

[Brother Bishop]

That's real cute of you, but if you hate my writing style because its too 'complex' for you, that's a little too bad

I mean, that's how I write, and up until now, no one really cared that i was 'complex'. Infact, they enjoyed it as a refreshing twist. But i'll take your rape of my work into slight consideration.

Also, the scene with Carter? He was bullshitting, in case you couldn't notice.

Also, because a massive war happens, doesn't mean that public communication is going to crumble. The timeline isn't definate for a reason, to allow imagination to set in. But if Clerics are coming into existance and if parts of Libria are still pretty shaky, its safe to say Father is a 'little new'.

Deus Ex (2001) - Year 2050. There are fully augmented human robots walking around. Possible? not really, go with it.

Its only the year 2006 and even in the heat of a war you can still see the vital signs of agents or certain special forces units in the field, and its not even the 'future' yet. I don't see why Father couldn't have a vital sign network made up, infact, i'd think its vital.

I mean, i'd take your advice into consideration... If it was any good.

[Vespertilio]

Wow, you don't take criticism as well as you dish it out, do you?

[Brother Bishop]

If its got valid faults. At graphic websites they never post anything positive other than a 'good job'. Its always what's wrong, not what you did right. The best way to learn. I've been doing this for 9 years and this is quite litterily the first to find my style as 'wrong'.

[Witcher Wolf]

Then I do hope that you never throw an outburst like you did previously at an editor, because had I been your editor and you'd have said that to me, I'd have found another author.

[Vespertilio]

bishop said:

If its got valid faults. At graphic websites they never post anything positive other than a 'good job'. Its always what's wrong, not what you did right. The best way to learn. I've been doing this for 9 years and this is quite litterily the first to find my style as 'wrong'.

*pssst!*(Spell Check is your friend)

9 years?!? You do realize that your profile says that you are 15?

MaWa gave you some very good constructive criticism which you have chosen to take as a personal attack, despite the fact that you have seen fit to give some very unconstructive harsh criticism to others under the guise of not "sugar coating" it.

Pot = Kettle?

[Witcher Wolf]

9 years?

Is that all?

Try 27 and then come back to me and tell me you don't need improvement...and even then I'll tell you that you do. I've been writing since I was 10, designing game systems from that age as well.

Even I recognise where I have my strengths and where my weaknesses lie, fortunately I have several damn good editors who are able to smooth out those rough spots. I've been published repeatedly in both the PC game and Tabletop RPG areas as well as other places.

Even I accept feedback.

One person commenting here on this story, with comments as: keep it up, yay, you're doing great, oh this is totally gripping...does not mean that everyone enjoys it.

And as far as I'm concerned as a professional, published author you made the biggest mistake of your writing life when you put Cleric Bishop into your story, in the industry that I come from we call that Gary Stu syndrome.

Your writing isn't too complex, but as it stands there's not a publisher on my list that would accept your work and as for your attitude, you need to change it if you ever want to get anything published or get anywhere at all as an author.

MaWa never stated that she hated your work, show me in her feedback exactly where there are those words?

I'll tell you your problem and this is it:

You can't take being critiqued as well as you think you can give it out.

I've been ripped to pieces by the best, that make MaWa's feedback look postively glowing and in the end I was better for it. I can accept constructive critique with grace and understanding, but you need to grow the fuck up and stop acting like you're someone you're not.

[Greyflower]

Don't believe profiles! When I first came to the forum my profile showed I was 39.

If a person writes stories being 15 years old, he (or she) deserves every respect. Having a gift is great. I'm 23 and I'm totally unable to create a worthy EC-10 of any kind.

Taking criticism painfully is natural; the problem is in how you react to it. Frankly speaking, when my work is being criticized my first desire is to fling something hard and heavy at the critic. But, finally, I've learned to manage my emotions and extract bits of useful and even pleasant information from what critics say.

If someone says your work needs improvement that means it's worth improving, otherwise you were told to throw that stuff out and forget it.

Litterily – from litter! ;D;D;D;D;D;D

[Witcher Wolf]

I have no problem with anyone writing stories at any age, I have a problem with ungracious and argumentative idiots that think the world owes them something just because they can write however.

I have a serious problem with someone at 15 claiming they have done this for 9 years so until the true age is established, you can understand my scepticism as well as others Greyflower.

You sum up in a nutshell with those last two paragraphs of yours exactly what I was thinking over this, especially with this line: "If someone says your work needs improvement that means it's worth improving, otherwise you were told to throw that stuff out and forget it. "

Accusing someone of raping your work however when they offered positive feedback on it, is not only immature but it is also in very bad taste. Greyflower is absolutely correct with the comment on criticism.

If you don't want feedback leave a disclaimer in your story/work that states: no feedback wanted thanks. I'd leave you a detailed feedback myself but you've proven to me that you're not capable of reacting in a mature manner.

I leave you with the words of the 10th Doctor, "no second chances, that's the kind of man I am."

[Libby]

Personally, Brother Bishop, I think everyone's being rather kind and constructive in their criticism and you should take it all onboard....

As far as I'm concerned, your writing isn't that complex. In fact in many ways it's actually quite simplistic, following a formulaic and derivative pattern. That's not to say there's anything wrong with that, but it's not Man Booker Prize material.

I agree with MaWa's comments and you should have taken a step back and considered them before posting such a petulant response. And you don't want to ruffle ClericWolf's fur the wrong way either...

I'm assuming that English is not your first language, which may account for some of the stranger semantic and grammatical errors and why bits of the prose come across as stilted and some of the dialogue contrived and unrealistic. I also get the feeling that you don't really review your work before posting...as this would have highlighted the various instances of repetition and disjointed sentence structure.

Maybe aiming for a simpler and less convoluted style would actually enhance your writing and allow you to keep it on a tighter rein.

As a story, it's kind of ok...the plot is unfolding and you have begun to delineate your characters. I suppose for me...and it is MHO...I can't find much to like about Cleric Bishop as a character, which means as yet I don't much care whether he lives or dies. Shame really.

[mawa]

OK, Brother Bishop, since you didn't like my feedback on the timeline and since you said that in this respect "The Sun" (my Deus Ex fiction ) is also impossible, I will explain this matter more thoroughtly.

Sure, I doubt that in year 2050 ( 2052, to be exact ) mechanically and nanotechnologically augmented humans will be running around. Hell, in our reality it would be highly unlikely. But this fiction happens in Deus Ex's timeline and universe - and in that universe such things are normal. OK, I admit that an idea of posting a fan-fiction of a video game on EQ message boards might be odd, but hey, it is not forbidden.

My "timeline problem" with your work was of a followng nature:

I agree that the timeline in EQ isn't exactly stated. Kurt Wimmer comments on it - according to him Libria have existed for about 30 years - see Interrogation section of EQ website, but there are some different theories: for instance, Judas raises some logical, valid arguments in her article, which are worth considering as well. )

According to your fiction, Librian resources ( I assume you're not speaking about human resources only ) are very thin. You said in your reply that parts of Libria are shaky and that Clerics are coming into existence.
Only a single First Class Cleric at one side of the continent in contrast with a nifty satellite monitoring system is, IMO a strong discord. I think we can assume that WW3 didn't happen in space and the satellites remained intact. But on Earth WW3 wiped out most of the human population and its civilization.

A fully developed communication system would have to be present in order to make an advantage of them. I don't think a world with such thin resources would be able to build ( or rather rebuild ) such a system. It would require enormous funds and effort to manage this.

I have nothing against Libria as a center of advanced technology. You might even put it on the same technological level as the Federation in Star Trek series. But it is important to remain consistent in this matter.

Regarding your statement about your writing style being too complex for me to understand: don't make me laugh. Libby said it all and the room for lack of understanding results rather from grammatical errors than complexity. Which brings me to a next piece of advice: check your piece before posting it and/or find a proofreader.

As for your attitude: others said it clearly, so elaborating on it would be like beating a dead horse. But I must say that I found such nervous reaction for a critique from a person who doesn't sugarcoat and doesn't complain and just points things out to be very amusing.

I'm done for now.

[Brother Bishop]

Glad I could spark so much hate. In the immortal words of the net.


Kthxbai.

[MisterAnderson]

emo hitler is now watching this thread.



play nice BB or suffer his angst.

[Witcher Wolf]

HAHAHA, my editor about died when she read that about hate!

Oh and by the way I'd listen to Libby, not only does she write excellent fiction herself she's also an English teacher. No one hates you or your work.

"People who live in glass houses, should not throw stones."

If this is the worst feedback/critique you get from people, then you're lucky.

[Libby]

bishop said:

Glad I could spark so much hate. In the immortal words of the net.


Kthxbai.

*sighs and puts on teacher hat*

Seems to be an increasing problem with young people these days...giving up as soon as things don't go their way. Is it, I wonder, part of the 'instant gratification' culture which appears to abound now? What's happened to perseverance and accepting the odd put-down along the way?

Cleric Wolf freely admits he's had some very nasty and uncalled for remarks posted about his work...(again part of the anonymous internet culture in which people seem to think they have a god-given right to be rude and insulting) so did he slope off to his den, tail between his legs? No way...he sharpened his claws and began to write even more.

MisterAnderson told us about a truly bad patch he went through some time back, but did he hide in a corner bleating? Not a chance...he grabbed his metal pole and came back swinging and is now back where he belongs.

With Brother Bishop, it all comes down to dishing it, but not being able to take it...something I see a lot at school. Maybe when he grows up a bit he can come and play in the big playground with the older children again...for now maybe he should stick to the sandpit.

[Witcher Wolf]

Never a truer word spoken there Libby

And I am certainly not joking around when I say the editors I know would have a field day.

[JenGe]

A formal complaint has been leveled against Brother Bishop.

BRAWL: Formal Complaint: Brother Bishop

This thread is now locked!!!