Was Partridge Right?

[Prestan]

"You always knew."

did he? and if so, why now after so long? there must have been other instances where preston suspected and had the opportunity to pursue such suspicions to find the truth, assuming he DID 'know.'

[clericjay]

clericjordan said:

"You always knew."

Did he really say that? I didn't recognized this sentence.
Maybe they changed it in the German synchro., but I also watched the movie in English often enough.

Maybe I have to watch the movie again.

[marphlets]

I think Partridge was trying to let Preston know he was feeling, as well. By subconsciously blocking out all of the signs that Partridge was a sense offender, he was saving a friends' life. Partridge was pointing out that, as DuPont said, Preston was "a man with the capacity to feel who didn't yet know it."

[Aedh]

Personally, I think Partridge was using the term "always" in its more usual (and incorrect) sense of a simple term of emphasis.

I see this statement as actually a 'testing question ...' rather like what in Jewish Talmud education is called a sh'eilah. That is, he was testing Preston with that statement ... trying to see what kind of reaction he'd get. If Preston denied knowing, then by that he would be admitting that he was too blind to see treachery in front of his own face. But if Preston admitted knowing, then he would be making himself complicit in it, by failing to have stopped Preston earlier. As it is, Preston, I think sensed this, because he made no reply. Partridge, rather ill-advisedly in my opinion, went on talking instead, letting Preston off the hook. But perhaps he meant to.

[Libby]

marphlets said:

I think Partridge was trying to let Preston know he was feeling, as well. By subconsciously blocking out all of the signs that Partridge was a sense offender, he was saving a friends' life. Partridge was pointing out that, as DuPont said, Preston was "a man with the capacity to feel who didn't yet know it."

I agree with this...I've always thought that Partridge was prepared to sacrifice his own life just to get Preston to realise what was going on and what he had to do. I theorised in Mortal Thoughts that Partridge might have been the original choice by DuPont to root out the resistance, but he went over to them completely...probably seduced ( in all its connotations ) by Mary (in whatever her role was) *oops! conspiracy theory alert!* and DuPont seized the opportunity to use Preston...in my opinion a much more dangerous option...because he was getting desperate.

[reosan]

I always took it as a declarative statement, as in a "You always knew how to find the sense offenders & now that includes me" kind of thing. I had never thought about it much, except to wonder if he was perhaps confronting Prestons' denial of Partridge being a sense offender, but I think Preston was such a conformist that he would have turned him in (or did what he did) the moment he realized that Partridge was guilty of feeling. He just went to the church to confirm his suspicions, hoping they were wrong.

[marphlets]

reosan said:

I always took it as a declarative statement, as in a "You always knew how to find the sense offenders & now that includes me" kind of thing. I had never thought about it much, except to wonder if he was perhaps confronting Prestons' denial of Partridge being a sense offender, but I think Preston was such a conformist that he would have turned him in (or did what he did) the moment he realized that Partridge was guilty of feeling. He just went to the church to confirm his suspicions, hoping they were wrong.

I can see this. I think Preston was a conformist, which is why he argued with Partridge about the benefits of Father's society. "There's no war. No murder." But I also think his journey into sense offense had started long before he confronted Partridge in the church. He had also somehow missed his wife's sense offense.

"I think perhaps Preston was two different people - that perhaps Prozium wasn't the only thing holding him back from feeling. His most obvious side was the one that took the dose and buried his burgeoning emotions. Then there was the part of him that reached up from those hidden depths to prevent him from losing a wife and friend." ---a direct quote from my EQ fic and my opinion on Preston's nature.

[preston782]

I have wondered at that sentence too. I agree with reosan.

[maelstrom]

Yeah I also wondered about this for some time, but I agree with marphlets.

[ihsan]

Jan 3, 2008 3:03:29 GMT -5 Prestan said:

"You always knew."

did he? and if so, why now after so long? there must have been other instances where preston suspected and had the opportunity to pursue such suspicions to find the truth, assuming he DID 'know.'

There's a few things to take into account -
1. Preston already previously made "a nearly unforgivable lapse" in 'missing' his wife's sense offence
2. Partridge knew Preston would come, he was waiting for him, and quite deliberately reading the banned book he was meant to have handed in (admitting he lied)

So it was a test to see how Preston would react and whether he could be "converted" to their cause, which Partridge of course knew was very risky. In fact, I firmly believe Partridge knew he was going to die, deciding it was a necessary sacrifice because in Preston "the sleeper must awaken", which would kickstart the revolution. Partridge sacrificed himself for the cause of the Underground. In that way, he has the nobility of a knight, like Preston.

As Dupont pointed out in their "interview" Preston is somehow able to sense as if he had ceased his dose; yet on some level he subconsciously "ignores" the sense offence of those nearest to him, like his wife, Partridge, and his children. Preston "always knew" but a part of him denied it, subconsciously suppressed it, protecting those closest to him.

Despite the Prozium, Preston does appear to be feeling some kind of trauma/shock after he kills Partridge; he wears a blank, disbelieving expression, like he can't believe he just killed his "friend", and he is unresponsive and speechless in the car with Brandt. This is the moment I think when "the sleeper has awakened". Then of course he goes on to dream about his dead friend, feeling guilt and remorse. Remembering the details of the loss of his wife.

The subconscious aspect manifests itself again, manipulating his actions, and he "inadvertantly" smashes his dose. And it all rolls on from there...

By the way, this concept of the "sleeper" was seen originally in Frank Herbert's "Dune" which takes place in a universe also reliant on a drug, the "Spice" (yet another science fiction book/film that could be seen to have influenced Equilibrium).

And it's clear Partridge does indeed see Preston as "the sleeper" because the Yeats poem excerpt ("...The Cloths of Heaven"), that he chooses to recite as his last words, is all about dreams.

[masha]

A more interesting question is...

Did Preston also know about Viviana? And if not, how did he miss it?

[Aedh]

Feb 1, 2009 10:06:43 GMT -5 masha said:

Did Preston also know about Viviana? And if not, how did he miss it?

This of course, like the Gun Switch, is one of the sixty-four dollar questions that no one will ever know, and which make this film so interesting ... because you can shake it out any way you like.