...sex?

[Prestan]

i don't think i have to go into detail as to what my question is, other than these three words: Libria, reproducing, feeling.

I can't give any input because i honestly don't know the answer. all i can say is
/discuss?
*looks to aedh

[Libby]

Maybe Mr Wimmer has the answer...it's in the commentary

some people question how in the world, without feeling, anybody could propagate. I didn't bother addressing this in the film, maybe I should have, but I didn't bother addressing it because even in our contemporary reality there's plenty of procreation that goes on in-vitro, without actual physical contact, and I just assumed the audience would make that assumption.

To me the whole concept of the family in this film is strictly residual. There was some dialogue at one time earlier in the film that made it clear that they were really sort of on the cusp of this society, that it had only been around since about the time Christian had been born, or Preston had been born. And you know much like we wear ties, like he's wearing there in that shot there, is the residual from the customary bibs we use to wear in medieval times. Yet we don't know why we wear this silly flap of fabric around our um.. neck, yet we do, do it. And there's plenty of things we say, and gestures we make that we've long since forgotten the reason why we do them. At any case to me in this movie the family, which they would ultimately get rid of eventually in this film, in this other society, but you can't do everything at once. You can't spring everything at once on human beings, it was strictly residual arrangement, that they were in the process of getting rid of. I think that in an earlier draft of the script actually, I even had someone remarking on the, you know the program of communization that was being launched....

[Prestan]

thanks Libby. who better to get an answer from than the creator himself.

[Witcher Wolf]

I have my own views but they coincide with Kurt's.

[preston782]

In my sequel to the movie, that's what I said. That they take samples from the couple and "make" a baby. Of course, later on my main female character totally throws herself at John, and well, she deflowers him.

[Aedh]

Well, as it is in the film, Kurt's answer is, of course, authoritative.

In the post-movie Libria of "Roses For Maria," one of the reasons that cancer is killing huge slabs of the population is because people stopped using their reproductive systems. Prozium might dampen your feelings, but it can't undo three million years of evolution. Unfortunately, the information that neglect of use of the reproductive system causes cancer--never widespread even pre-catastrophe--was totally suppressed by the regime. By the time of the story, some people are having sex again, but many people are refraining from it because they are afraid it might be one of the things that causes cancer. There's a fair number who believe that Father banned sense-offense (and sex) for that very reason, and they believe that cancer of the reproductive systems would actually vanish if everyone stopped altogether. Of course this is dead wrong, but such is human nature ... being dead wrong never hurt anybody. Quite to the contrary, being dead wrong seems sometimes to be a spur to heroic efforts.

[Libby]

aedh said:

Well, as it is in the film, Kurt's answer is, of course, authoritative.

In the post-movie Libria of "Roses For Maria," one of the reasons that cancer is killing huge slabs of the population is because people stopped using their reproductive systems. Prozium might dampen your feelings, but it can't undo three million years of evolution. Unfortunately, the information that neglect of use of the reproductive system causes cancer--never widespread even pre-catastrophe--was totally suppressed by the regime.

...and the opposite would be just as dangerous, people suddenly released from the libido-inhibiting effects of prozium would run the risk of other STDs and possible cancers as promiscuity ran rife because there would be no structure to relationships...

[Witcher Wolf]

It works for me

[Aedh]

libby said:

...and the opposite would be just as dangerous, people suddenly released from the libido-inhibiting effects of prozium would run the risk of other STDs and possible cancers as promiscuity ran rife because there would be no structure to relationships...

Well, I'll revise my answer. In the immediate aftermath, yes. "Roses" takes place twenty years later, so at that time we don't see the sudden effects ... it's not like, "Yay! I can feel! ;D Hello sailor." Although in the backstory that did exist, and at the time of the story we do see its effects unwinding ... for example, in the total breakdown of family structure. Many 18- and 19-year-olds don't know who their fathers are. Many others don't know who either parent really is. That is the secret of the appeal of the BCI demi-cult to students. Their fellows become their real "family." That's also why it's majority female, because they are searching for a stable network and support group in a society that offers none. Government is corrupt, religion has been forgotten, and family has disintegrated. All that's left is the personal relationships you forge yourself, if you emerge from childhood with any desire to do that, or even any knowledge of what they are. Irina Madour is meant to be a portrait of a fairly typical Librian collegian of that era, although one from a wealthier family than most.

[preston782]

clericwolf said:

It works for me

LMAO

[Witcher Wolf]

I had planned to cover something similar in Ashes II, but that was put on hold.

[saavik256]

AFAIR, there was already some discussion on this subject at one point. And the conclusion was, much like in this thread, that it was probably in vitro fertilisation.

[Aedh]

saavik256 said:

AFAIR, there was already some discussion on this subject at one point. And the conclusion was, much like in this thread, that it was probably in vitro fertilisation.

Yes ... but you have to think about the social fallout from that. If everyone's conceived in vitro, that means no one can be really sure who their biological parent are. Your mum might be ... or your dad, or both ... or neither!

Also, in vitro fertilisation is just that ... fertilisation. The babies don't grow in test tubes for nine months. And while Prozium might deaden feelings, I have a notion it don't do much for morning sickness. Or for incipient lactation, hormones, etc. And I can't believe it robs ALL the magic from feeling that first kick or listening to hiccups. And parents have to have SOME pride at bringing a new citizen into the world to serve the glorious cause of reason and peaceful progress under the caring aegis of Father. I mean, think about it. He IS called "Father," and not "Number One" or "Chief Executive" or "Supreme Hominid."

In fact, I think if EYE were Father--and I'm not, but I know her well--I'd even use all this in support of my regime. "See how Librian science and technology is blessing you with the privilege of parenthood. It is your task as parental units to care for them with diligence until such time as they can enter the service of the State." Etc. etc.

[aikidoal]

I would think that they would address hormone fluctuations with appropriate chemical therapy (more Prozium, a cocktail of Prozium plus others, etc.) Or special dispensation/counseling would be done during parts of the pregnancy. Or all of the above. The chemical cocktail solution does make me wonder how that would affect fetal development, and how much trial and error was done. Something to explore in fanfic.

Or maybe the women "go away" during part of their term to a Librian facility. I can imagine the horror there.

[Greyflower]

Whatever Wimmer says, I doubt that mass in vitro fertilization could be used in Libria. It would take too much resources and too many special medical facilities and operatives just to keep the population at the same level. Given that it's been not too long since the War ended, there must be lack of resources. So, most probably, the "natural" way of fertilization is still used.

[Aedh]

Feb 21, 2010 5:11:42 GMT -5 Greyflower said:

Whatever Wimmer says, I doubt that mass in vitro fertilization could be used in Libria. It would take too much resources and too many special medical facilities and operatives just to keep the population at the same level. Given that it's been not too long since the War ended, there must be lack of resources. So, most probably, the "natural" way of fertilization is still used.

This is just the case in "Queen City," which is a pre-prequel to EQ. Most prequels start with the catastrophic War after whose fallout Libria was founded. QC looks at how we got from our world to-day to that catastrophic War.

[Lightfighter]

If they use invitro fertilization, do they introduce Prozium into the fetus? I think Aehd nailed it in that invitro is fertilization, not the actual growing of a whole person in a vat or tube. So mom is on Prozium. That may help with all the psycho pregnant female hormones, but how does that affect the development of the fetus? How many generations do you keep injecting Prozium in pregnant women before you adversely effect the actual development of the fetus? Does Prozium block hormones? Testosterone is a hormone, as well as estrogen. If you block these, then what?

[lovethefather]

I'm always wondering because it always talks about the effect of Prozium on emotion in the film, but it never mentions what effect it has on anything else. Maybe Wimmer decided to leave that up to us. I like it when they do that.
You never hear about it being tested, so I'm wondering if this is as controversial as something like GM foods...