Just saw part of the movie again on cable; some ?s

[mikewinlds]

Hey everyone, I saw bits and pieces of this movie again on cable TV and had some questions about the movie. At the very end battle where Bale is fighting the new "Father," does he stab the father guy with the gun he took from him, since their guns have that sharp point at the bottom that could act like a bayonet?

The fight scene was so fast I couldn't see what was going on, but what I thought happened was that Bale somehow twisted Father's arm around and then shoved his hand into like Father's lower stomach, so that the sharp pointy end pierced him, and that was why Father screamed out in pain?

(And speaking of the ending battles, I've got to say I was very disappointed in the sword battle between Bale and Taye Diggs, I mean he was dressed up all fancy and had that nice white sword that they took away, and I thought they were going to do some mad Samurai shit there, but it was real quick and lame, although the hand-to-hand gunfight afterwards made up a little for it. I would've liked to see more of a sword battle between two of the top Clerics though, especially since Taye pretty much kicked Bale's ass when they were sparring with the police batons using similar fighting techniques as they did with the swords.)

Another question was when they were taking away Taye Diggs I think that's his name, and he yells out, "I'm not feeling! He is!" Well, during all those scenes where the people are angry or yelling, aren't those emotions too? If they truly had no emotions, everyone would be walking around and talking in a monotonous, expressionless robot voice, right?

Also the thing with the gun tracing, not the idea about continuity error or all that debate. How come when Taye Diggs looks down on his gun it says Preston on it, so if they did the trace and it said Preston, wouldn't that mean Bale killed the other law enforcement dudes and not Taye Diggs? Or how exactly does the tracting work? Were those things that pop out of the bottom of the gun when Bale used the guns to bash all those guards helmets in without using bullets and just the butt of the guns the memory banks or tracers of the gun to see who and when it was fired by or something? And then Bale had two guns while Taye Diggs only had one gun, so yea, I dunno how they figured the tracing thing to Taye, but I guess all of that was a ruse anyway to lure Bale into the final meeting with Father after he rounded up all the underground.

And lastly, I don't know how the polygraph works, but why did the meter stop flicking back and forth when Bale goes, "No, not without consequence," and then the guards nearby go, "Oh shit," then Bale goes on a rampage and kills everyone? Did that mean he stopped feeling at that point and then went into a remorseless rage?

Anyway, great movie, I love Christian Bale, he's a fantastic actor. Gotta rent this movie and watch the whole thing. I bet it's tops. And on the FAS, there is a whole mess of topics about Matrix and Equilibrium. Did this come out before or after Matrix?

[Aedh]

Welcome to the boards, Mike! Well ... lots of materiel here to tackle! Of course, there are no "right" answers to some questions, particularly those the deal with why some characters do what they do. This site has been around for four years, and you may be sure that pretty much all of these points have been discussed among fans.

No doubt to some people, points get settled, and remain settled, and they don't want to talk about them again. But (to me) it's part of the magic that you can think about something ... and think about it again ... and sometimes come up with new ideas.

I'll pick out one or two points to give my theories on, and leave the rest to others ...

mikewinlds said:

Another question was when they were taking away Taye Diggs I think that's his name, and he yells out, "I'm not feeling! He is!" Well, during all those scenes where the people are angry or yelling, aren't those emotions too? If they truly had no emotions, everyone would be walking around and talking in a monotonous, expressionless robot voice, right?

I like to think that Brandt (Diggs' character) was, indeed, feeling. Of you think about it, even Grammaton Clerics have to feel to some extent, in order to do their job. You may not have seen earlier parts where Preston (Bale's character) traces out hidden areas where offenders have concealed things. To me the real point is not that they don't feel, but that they sacrifice their feelings, putting them under the "leash" of Prozium and devoting themselves in every way--even mentally, subjugating their emotions--to the demands of the State. Thus, when Brandt yells this out, he doesn't literally mean that Preston's not feeling ...what he means is that Preston has his own feelings ... he's "off the reservation" to so speak.

mikewinlds said:

And lastly, I don't know how the polygraph works, but why did the meter stop flicking back and forth when Bale goes, "No, not without consequence," and then the guards nearby go, "Oh shit," then Bale goes on a rampage and kills everyone? Did that mean he stopped feeling at that point and then went into a remorseless rage?

My theory is ... it's an emotion detector. That's basically what polygraphs are you know. Before that Preston had been feeling, sorting out all his emotions, loyalities, his training and upbringing factors, etc ... he was, in short, conflicted. At that point he overcame his conflicted feelings and 'centered' himself, to use a counseling word ... found the inner point of calmness and certitude, and in effect became a good Cleric again--only this time one turned against the regime instead of supporting it ... 'calmly, coolly ...' but 'not without incident.'

[Aedh]

On the gun swap ... this is perhaps the most-debated part of the movie. A good place to begin reading theories about it is here, in its rightful place on the "Index Of Frequent Subjects:"

Gun Swap Theories/Discussions

[Prestan]

Ahem... we dont talk about the gunswap at these forums. It is forbidden.
Welcome to the resistance Mike =)

[mikewinlds]

One other thing that has been bugging me about this movie. Aren't Grammaton Clerics supposed to be uber badass? Well, I know Bale was always practicing, that's why he was the best, according to Brandt, and I guess since he was the top Cleric in the whole place, but why don't we see the other Clerics whooping ass like Bale, since they're higher up on the scale than the regular sweepers and snipers. I don't know if all those guys at the end with swords were Clerics or not, though they didn't wear the same style coat, so maybe they weren't. But yea, why weren't the other two Clerics in this movie badass like Bale? I guess there were a bunch of training Clerics too that were practicing in the movie, but they were very minor characters.

[Witcher Wolf]

*sings*

"Gun Swap Baby, Gun Swap!"

[Aedh]

clericwolf said:

*sings*
"Gun Swap Baby, Gun Swap!"

Why don't ya give 'im the link Wolf?

I would surrender a bodily appendage of my own choice (not a major one though) to hear you actually sing that for real.

[Aedh]

mikewinlds said:

One other thing that has been bugging me about this movie. Aren't Grammaton Clerics supposed to be uber badass? Well, I know Bale was always practicing, that's why he was the best, according to Brandt, and I guess since he was the top Cleric in the whole place, but why don't we see the other Clerics whooping ass like Bale, since they're higher up on the scale than the regular sweepers and snipers. I don't know if all those guys at the end with swords were Clerics or not, though they didn't wear the same style coat, so maybe they weren't. But yea, why weren't the other two Clerics in this movie badass like Bale? I guess there were a bunch of training Clerics too that were practicing in the movie, but they were very minor characters.

Well ... for pragmatic moviemaking reasons, it's quite spendy to have lots of Clerics going around opening cans of whupass everywhere
... a lot of coaching required there.

Personally, I don't think there's anything that says that Partridge is NOT badass ... we just don't happen to see him in action. The main chance we would have had for that is the scene where Preston assassinates him, and Partridge of course had decided not to fight at that point.

There's also the fact that there's different ways to be badass. It's possible to be quietly badass. I like to think of Partridge as having been that type ... able to freeze and penetrate a SO's soul with a glance, rather than having to haul out the guns all the time. That might well be why they partnered him with Gunslinger Preston to start with.

Of course we don't get to see Dupont in action until the end ... but I think he acquits himself not too badly against Mr Preston. He certainly does a lot better that I would!! LOL!

Just my take.

[aikidoal]

Personally I liked the final "fight" with Brandt at the end. When I watched it the first time (with a group of people) one of my friends yelled out during the faceoff (pun intended) "Prepare for the fight scene!" Then *schwipp* *plop* Friend: "or maybe not."

The scene illustrated to me that Preston was toying with Brandt earlier and not playing his hand until needed.

More badass clerics...there wasn't really that many scenes which could of illustrated this without being gratuitous. It's my opinion that Preston was supposed to show the pinnacle of the training, and we could make out the rest with Partridge or Brandt or even DuPont (pretty badass for an office jockey.)

Polygraphs: I've been told that they never truly flatline like that unless you get taken off the machine. It's purely there for dramatic effect to show Preston's focus. I don't believe they make the cardiogram noise either.

Emotions, in general: This isn't the planet Vulcan. Most of them don't even realize they are expressing emotion when they are because it's an alien concept.