Prestan
Vice Council in Charge of Flames and Summary Combustions 
Not Without Innocence
Posts: 128
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Post by Prestan on May 10, 2007 1:59:31 GMT -5
God is refered to as The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Librians are drones, sheeple, and, well: idiots. They unquestionably follow the orders of a man they've never seen before but believe exists. They call him Father. Law enforcers kill all who oppose Father. They're called Clerics. Christians follow God no matter what because God is perfect and ergo his command is perfect. DuPont: "It is not the message that is important; it is our obedience to it; Father's will. Call it FAITH." Subtle, but lets face it (I noticed it right away and you must have too) The giant 'T' looks an awful lot like the cross. Finally (this would take too long to explain) look up the meaning behind Tetagramma. I love Equilibrium, and I not so much love Matrix, but while both share a pretty ridiculous story, one has a very strong (and plainly obvious) Christian overtone to it (Neo dies so those who are lost in the Matrix can choose to be saved) while the other seems to be... well very much the opposite. If this has been a topic already I apologize but I had to say this because it's been bugging me and typing this out sort of 'gets-it-off-my-chest' Please respond and feel free to burn without incident ps: Even if all this is true, I still think Equilibrium kicks ass  |
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Post by mawa on May 10, 2007 4:42:20 GMT -5
Hm, Anti-Christian? I wouldn't say so. Below I shall state my reasons:
You have to remember that Libria is a totalitarian society. In such regimes religion is not accepted for a very simple reason: God ( and I'm talking about any possible deity here ) is a being, which is superior to humans. The dictator is a human being. So, allowing your subjects to worship whatever deity they believe in is to in fact undermine the faith in your perfection.
It's not about atheism: it's about replacing the target of worship. The rule is: totalitarian systems are anti-religious, because religions worship God, instead of The Leader.
To sum it up in a nutshell: two words - personality cult. Think Stalin, think Kim Jong-il.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on May 10, 2007 6:36:37 GMT -5
Well said MaWa!
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Prestan
Vice Council in Charge of Flames and Summary Combustions
Not Without Innocence
Posts: 128
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Post by Prestan on May 10, 2007 17:27:28 GMT -5
True, but I don't think that rules out all of my points. Yes, Father is just a man, but aren't dictator's meant to be seen as a god?
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Post by mawa on May 10, 2007 17:51:12 GMT -5
Yes, you might say so. Dictator has an absolute power over his subjects and in that respect you might say that he is to be viewed as a god ( or God with a capital G). And I would view the whole symbolism you mentioned above as a mean to show this particular shift in hierarchy: The Leader instead of God. But that doesn't mean that EQ is Anti-Christian. The actual totalitarian systems are Anti-Christian - or broader: anti-religious, for reasons already stated above. EQ just acknowledges this trait. If you feel I still haven't addressed all of the points, don't hesitate to tell me. Frankly, these boards haven't seen any interesting discussion on EQ for quite a while, so it's nice to see a change.  |
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Post by Witcher Wolf on May 11, 2007 7:44:05 GMT -5
My take on this has been stated numerous times so I'll keep it as Cleric-like as I possibly can.
There is no religion there is no emotion, religion requires an incredible degree of emotion and self awareness to function in a society like ours. I, like MaWa do not believe EQ is indeed anti-Christian, just as it's not anti-religious in any aspect. But people will draw what parallels they want...regardless of what Kurt Wimmer does or says.
Just as to this day they still say that the Lord of the Rings is an allegory to World War II and the state of the world at that time. Tolkien vehmently denied this.
The T stands for Tetragrammaton so logically you'd expect them to take the T as a symbol, the true symbol of the order I think is the other logo. Which other people have likened to many other symbols.
In the end it's just a picture, it's our very nature that puts meaning to it. In both respects.
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Post by Aedh on May 17, 2007 22:10:07 GMT -5
After my infamous essay on "Ultraviolet" I swore I would never discuss religion and any work of Kurt Wimmer's together in the same breath again. But I considered this, and decided to weigh in with a thought or two. Subtle, but lets face it (I noticed it right away and you must have too) The giant 'T' looks an awful lot like the cross. "The giant 'T'" not only looks like a cross, it IS a cross: the "Tau" or "St Anthony's" Cross, also called the "Crusaders' Cross." In medieval times it was worn by those who wished to go and have it out with the infidel. Later it became the official emblem of the Franciscan Order, which it still is to-day. I love Equilibrium, and I not so much love Matrix, but while both share a pretty ridiculous story, one has a very strong (and plainly obvious) Christian overtone to it (Neo dies so those who are lost in the Matrix can choose to be saved) while the other seems to be... well very much the opposite. I like discussions like this, as it shows people are really thinking on many levels. Thinking on many levels is good. (I've also had this discussion in spades about "The Da Vinci Code.") Yes, there are 'Clerics' (who wear Dominican black, the colour of most of the Inquisitors as well as of the Jesuits) who hang about in 'The Monastery.' They're celibate and vowed to obey at all costs (like Jesuits again). It would be more plausible to say that EQ is anti-CATHOLIC rather than simply anti-Christian. However, I don't think either one is the case. Religion and faith can be used as powerful weapons, even by those who don't believe in any god. I think that most intelligent persons watching this film would reach a similar conclusion. Anyone who watched this film and came away with a hatred of religion is someone who would have been ready to hate religion anyway, and would have been set off by something else the next day.  |
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Post by Witcher Wolf on May 18, 2007 7:59:38 GMT -5
I love you Aedh, in a totally friendly-platonic way of course. That was a really good reply. It brought to mind several conversations I've had recently regarding Fate's Hand, for obvious (to me) reasons. So I tip my hat to you Sir, and that's a rarity from me |
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Post by kingofsorrow on May 19, 2007 2:59:04 GMT -5
hhhhmmmmmm..........
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Post by Aedh on May 20, 2007 13:31:25 GMT -5
An afterthought .... judging from the spiffy black Gestapo-style uniforms; the invasive police procedures; the use of medical science in the service of the State; the references to "Father" (='Fatherland'); the use of incineration as a punishment; the hunting down of "Resistance Members;" and even the Tetragrammaton logo (not the T but the four crosses joined at the bottoms, which look like a right-hand and left-hand swastika superimposed)--not to mention the Berlin location for filming--you could say that EQ is an anti-NAZI film just as plausibly as an anti-Christian one.
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