Gunkata part 3

[cleric7]

Since the other threads about gunkata seem to have suffered an untimely death, let us renew our ideas on the matter.
Personally I see the idea of gunkata as very fesible. One must only start with basic fighting and gunfighting ideas in mind about the weapons you choose that would best suit the situation at hand, the oponents and the basic actions, instincts, and reactions of the majority of your opponents, and your own instincts and basic abilities and feasible training options.
First of all the weapons. There are various calibers one can choose from but I believe 9mm, 40cal, and .45cal might be the way to go for recoil puposes, and magazine capacity I would go with the 9mm but take your pick. There are multiple Glocks and Springfield armory XD's that would fit the bill nicely.
For such close quarters combat against multiple opponents the best choice would be twin pistols that fire in burst of 3 rounds per trigger pull, this keeps your ammunition from being burned up with one pull of the tringger and also allows you to move on quickly to the next target. The burst also sends a spray pattern that increases your chances for a good hit.
Your Opponents:
The vast majority of people will aim at your center of mass, some others might want to aim at your head for some reason, either way, if we envision you at the center of say three opponents your best bet is to shoot first (giving you the upperhand of your opponents having to react to you) and as doing such drop to the ground which your instincts will drive you to get low anyway so why fight it...use it.
Once on the ground you need to move immedietly, always keep on the move. Move shoot, move shoot, shoot while moving whatever works. But keep moving, and move toward your opponents just like in a military ambush, you have to get out of the killzone, keep them off balance and keep them guessing as to what your going to do.
The natural reactions of people in a gunfight are to get low, duck down the head move to the left and away if your right handed and to the right and away if your left handed, and they keep firing at the last place they saw you, cause now you've caught them off guard and scared the crap out of them, so they're looking to get away and find cover and fast.
But you've got instincts too, and your tunnel vision has kicked in, this poses several problems but with any luck years of training have trained your brain to go on virtual auto pilot and seek targets and eliminate them quickly.
No airborne flips are nessesary no contorting the body this way or that. Keep your shots straight, arms close to the body and pointed forward, extend the arm only to shoot and extend the arm and pistol straight to your target then back once the shot is done. Don't swing your arms around to other targets, just extend straight out take the shot then back to your side with the pistol pointed forward. This motion limits the mussle of your gun wobbling from swinging it this way and that to find targets, straight out straight back.
One would need to train to keep their periferal vision in use during combat, this allows you to take out multiple targets at once.
Since most people cannot aquire fully automatic or burst fire auto pistols one could compensate with a "double tap" on each target.
But as to actual Kata (that is knowing where your opponent is going to be at any given time) this is virtually impossible, let alone in a constantly changing combat situation. However by breaking down human instincts to their very core, and training with such basic concepts in mind, the chances of you surviving and eliminating your opponents goes up significantly compared to classical techniques.

[Aedh]

Jan 31, 2009 19:27:57 GMT -5 cleric7 said:

But as to actual Kata (that is knowing where your opponent is going to be at any given time) this is virtually impossible, let alone in a constantly changing combat situation. However by breaking down human instincts to their very core, and training with such basic concepts in mind, the chances of you surviving and eliminating your opponents goes up significantly compared to classical techniques.

Or, as someone else put it ...

"Through analysis of thousands of recorded gunfights, the Cleric has determined that the geometric distribution of antagonists in any gun battle is a statistically predictable element."

I think people sometimes lose sight of the last three words. Statistics are as astrologers like to say about the stars ... they influence but they do not dictate. For example, statistics say that I'm going to live to 78. But is that what they really say? No. Statistics say that white American males as a whole live to 78. But saying "as a whole" is quite different than saying "You." Whatever age I'm going to live to, the odds are against it being precisely 78. Take me and add more like me, and you have a group. Get the group large enough and the statistic starts to make some sense.

In the same way, a Cleric using Gun Kata is going to be more effective against a group, if he is really basing his approach on statistics, because the members of the group are going to act like a group does, and statistics work with groups. The fewer opponents, the smaller the group, and the more that individual characteristics take over. This would lead to the conclusion that Gun Kata would be relatively ineffective against a very small number of opponents, like two, and for all practical purposes useless against one. Then the Cleric would have to rely on his individual fighting skills like anyone else.

By the way, welcome to the boards, cleric7.

[cleric7]

Thanks,
Another thing is that when firing your weapon one best not shoot over one's own shoulder right by your own ear unless absolutely nessisary. Not only is it very unlikely that you will hit your target, but most of all shooting that close to your ear is likely going to blow out your eardrum and at the very least the blast will be enough to set you mentally off balance for a spell, just long enough for an opponent to drill you in the head.
And with the idea of the cross shoot, that is crossing your arms in a 180 degree plain and one gun taking out the guy on your right and the other gun taking out the guy on your left. Looks cool, but if tried one would need to make sure that the autopistols are far enough away from the arm they pass under to avoid the slide as it works back and forth as the weapon is fired. (Another important safty tip.) So if this move is tried, again best too practice with plenty of room for the slide and be mind full again of how close the gun is to your ear drums.
For practice I would say that the best weapons would be airsoft semi-automatic pistols. These hurt like hell but a little padding can go along way, also of course proper eye protection. The second would be regular semi-automatic bb guns. I know "now that hurts like hell" true, that's why this is the second choice and not the first. Again padding and eye protection, heck you might want a paintball mask as well. Either way this seems to be the best equipement offered right now that I can think of.
It might be best, especially if you would like to train by yourself at first, to set up a series of targets in a circle or however you wish in order to walk through the motions slowly and build yourself up to several kata's, forms, or patterns (whatever yout wish to call it) to familerize yourself with some basic ways of dispatching oppoents in each situation.
Remember shoot first, drop down, piviot or roll to another position (moving toward the outside of the circle or main kill zone) shoot, get up shoot, move shoot, drop, pivot, shoot... Basically keep this sort of tactic up until the opponents are eleminated.
Note, this gunkata proposed is only if you are in a situation where there is no available cover in the vast surrounding area. For instance your in a large empty room surounded by anywhere from one to eight opponents (at least that's the max I visualize). If there is cover take it and from there there are more than enough techniques already out there to deal with the traditional gunfight that ensues, but for the gunkata in this discussion it is assumed that there is not cover, escape, or available barricades to use. Point taken, lets move on.
So I believe the best course of action in the end is to keep things simple, shoot first, and shoot in short bursts. Your movement should be constant yet always keep your targets in mind as to their positions and motions. Your own movements are to be kept simple, Drop, pivot (or roll), stand up, move, drop, pivot, up, move........ This keeps your opponents always on their toes as to where to shoot. If your shooting at an opponent on while they are on the move lead them off a little (just shoot ahead of them and inch) and again use the double tap.
You may need to shoot an opponent many times, unlike on television bullets arn't magic, unless vital organs or arteries are hit many people can take multiple hits and still keep on fighting, the key is, just keep on using your technique and shooting till everyone is dead. Simple rule of thumb but you knew that.

Does anyone have any other suggestions and/or comments?

[cleric7]

There are basic things that the vast majority of people will do in the event of a gunfight or gunfire:
1. Duck their head
2. Bend their knees and get low
3. Extend their arms
4. Develope tunnel vision
5. Tend to automatically move away from the perceived source of the gunfire
6. Hearing tends to shut down or be dulled severly

Does anyone else know of any instinctual actions, these I believe can help us develope better kata and fighting techniques if we all do a little brainstorming.

[Lightfighter]

Hello, all.

I have been reading some of your ideas. The Airsoft one seems to be about the most feasible. There are a lot of police departments that are using Airsoft as a low cost training tool to simulate force on force scenarios. There are Airsoft paintball munitions available, but the availability of these is somewhat limited in some areas.

I do love the idea of making the gun Kata a reality. I am currently serving in the US Army and have a reasonable amount of experience involving firearms and marksmanship. As far as the practical application and accuracy, I should think that it would boil down to a practice called point shooting and reflexive fire techniques. If you are interested in either of these topics, some good reads are those from Colonel Rex Applegate, Jeff Cooper, and the book 'Bull's Eyes Don't Shoot Back', among others. There are also several excellent shooting materials available from various training agencies, such as Magpul Dynamics, Gunsite Academy, and Paladin Press just to name a few. Now, while these institutions focus on primarily traditional methods of utilizing firearms, the quality and quantity of the information available is excellent. Like a very wise man once said to me, 'Never stop learning.' Another very wise man also said, 'There's no one way to do anything.'

In regards to firearms, the Beretta 92 series and the Glock are excellent choices. Reliability and capacity for either model are outstanding. However, it all comes down to personal preference. I am a big fan of the Springfield Armory XD series. I currently have one and to date have put almost 5,000 rounds of ammunition of various brands through it with only one malfunction. That's pretty solid no matter how you slice it up. Personally, I find that the Beretta and Glock don't fit my hand as well. I have been genetically predisposed with what I call 'little girl hands', and the XD just feels right.

The biggest thing to remember is that the operative word in gunfight is 'fight'. While the pursuit of martial arts and combat arts to further enhance your personal well-being is admirable, the mental focus to survive any violent encounter must become ingrained. The most important thing to remember, while this pursuit may be fun, you must be able to defend yourself whenever the need arises. Also, you must always take into account you surroundings. Remember the rule regarding firearms:
1) Treat all firearms as if the were loaded.
2) Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to destroy.
3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until your sights are on target.
4) Be sure of your target.

Finally, I am assigned to the 25th Infantry Division, 'Tropic Lightning', out of Schofield Barracks, HI. If anyone is close by, I would love to get together and discuss any ideas you have.