Prozium and PMS?

[Aedh]

OK now ... we've had other threads on Prozium but not one, I think, devoted specifically to Prozium and women's health.

One is ... Prozium and PMS. While it might stop or slow the mood swings, what about the physical effects and how those might play out--bloating, tenderness, etc? I mean, it would still hurt right? I'm interested in getting a few opinions.

Another is Prozium and pregnancy. I can't believe the regime would excuse pregnant women--yes, I know Libria has in vitro fertilisation, but the women still have to carry the babies to term--from their regular interval.

I'm particularly interested because studies with some antidepressants show that there is a high degree of absorption by the infant. A full dose in mum usually results in a 75% dose in baby as well. So any baby born would be born having developed with a skinful of Prozium ever since conception. Given that in pediatric medicine, it's often found that meds with a given effect on adults have the opposite effect on kids--Ritalin, for example, was developed as speed for adults, but is given to kids to slow them down--what might that mean?

[reveria]

Interesting... I've thought about Prozium and pregnancy, but not PMS. must be because I'm one of the lucky few who don't experience any of it ;D

But I think as with all physical pain, the symptoms would still be there. Unless maybe there were some Prozium compatible painkillers to relieve them. I'm rather clueless about chemical details, but I guess something like that must be possible.

Or, maybe women would get a special kind of Prozium with a low concentration of estrogen and gestagen added to it, like in modern birth control pills. that way, they wouldn't go through a cycle and therefore not experience PMS in the first place. this would not work when a pregnancy would be decided to occur, but perhaps then they'd switch to "normal" Prozium?

I agree with you about pregnant women. Let them off the dose? And be moody all over the place? HELL NO! haha. I know about the ritalin, so this is an interesting thought... again, perhaps a pregnant woman's dose would be as low as possible to prevent absorption by the infant. that might explain why both Libby and I decided it was during pregnancy that Viviana ceased her dose - if you're constantly on the edge of being undermedicated, it might be an easy slip up.

[jddadj]

In regards to the replies on my forum i wud have to say that women wud clearly feel the effects of PMS but have little response to it. There wud be no change in their behavoural patterns thats for sure. I wish some narky women at my workplace wud dose on prozium cos weve got some r8 wingers...they must have a daily cycle or something (i dont really mean that cos its slightly sexist)

[jddadj]

incidently there is a PMS advice advert and other women's health adverts at the top of this page (i dunno if u guys will see the same advert but it does on mine. If it wasnt for prozium, id love coincidences)

[Aedh]

I'm guessing that since everyone checks in to the Equilibrium Centre to pick up their doses, there's certainly nothing to keep doses from being "tailored" either for individual use or for classes. I'm suspecting that children would have a different sort of cocktail from adults, and perhaps adolescents another again. Certainly nothing to keep women with a history of difficulties to have mild painkillers and/or diuretics added to theirs. And perhaps pregnant women have a special mixture as well.

In fact, the necessity to track customised doses would just give another justification for the regime to keep tabs on everybody. Libria's single-payer totalitarian health plan ... put in place "so that no one gets excluded from healthcare" ... "It's for the children you know!" Etc.

[BlackDragon]

Trully interesting!!!

I'm sure that all the girls here would agree with me on this.
Is true, and no one can deny it, that some women with PMS express sometimes a high level of strange feelings towards others. They are very sensitive to inocent coments, they are mad all the time.. have mood swings, and so on... (fortunatly I don't know what that is ) But isn't that the product of non stoping and irritating pain, that takes the patience even to a calm and zen creature!!!?
I know that is more to PMS than pain, but belive me, the pain sure helps!!

Cleric women on prozium would feel the pain, of course, but only physiologicaly speaking, because they wouldn't "feel it". It would be just like other pain. They would behave like any male cleric in pain (whatever that would be.... : They are taking prozium so they wouldn't get mad, irritated or sensitive...they wouldn't have mood swings... they wouldn't feel anything!
Women on prozium would only experience physiological PMS!

[aikidoal]

Or perhaps we're trying to make Prozium the catch-all. Sure, it's the most defining drug in the society, however...if a civilization was able to come up with Prozium, then it wouldn't be too hard of a stretch for it to have a minor arsenal of supporting chemical "solutions." In the case of women and menstrual cycles, I could imagine some "supplements."

[BlackDragon]

Apr 22, 2008 11:39:23 GMT -5 aikidoal said:

Or perhaps we're trying to make Prozium the catch-all. Sure, it's the most defining drug in the society, however...if a civilization was able to come up with Prozium, then it wouldn't be too hard of a stretch for it to have a minor arsenal of supporting chemical "solutions." In the case of women and menstrual cycles, I could imagine some "supplements."

Ah exactly!!!

[Aedh]

This opens up the larger question of Librian pharmaceutical and medical achievement, which in my version (see "Roses For Maria") leads the world in its time ... not least because of the necessary response to the challenge of Prozium-related cancer which I assigned to that milieu.

[Libby]

I also touched on the fact that pregnant women had to have their doses adjusted regularly to compensate for hormonal swings...

I felt that the dose was kept as 'light' as possible and so did need taking at regular 'intervals' to maintain its efficacy.

As regards PMS I imagine the TG thought they had that all under control (LOL! as if!)

a random comment...

A recent scientific study found that women find different male faces attractive depending on where they are in their menstrual cycle. For example, when a woman is ovulating she will prefer a man with rugged, masculine features.

However when she is suffering from PMS she prefers a man doused in petrol and set on fire, with scissors stuck in his eye and a cricket stump shoved up his backside.


...works for me

[Aedh]

Apr 23, 2008 13:41:48 GMT -5 Libby said:

A recent scientific study found that women find different male faces attractive depending on where they are in their menstrual cycle. For example, when a woman is ovulating she will prefer a man with rugged, masculine features.

However when she is suffering from PMS she prefers a man doused in petrol and set on fire, with scissors stuck in his eye and a cricket stump shoved up his backside.


...works for me

OK Cleric Libby ... we have this very special experimental interval for you. However, for full effect it has to be taken with a handful of Belgian chocolates and a half-bottle of Asti Spumante, while reclining in a bubble bath. Naturally we can count on a tried and tested Cleric like you with such a hazardous test.

[Libby]

Apr 24, 2008 7:44:30 GMT -5 Aedh said:

Apr 23, 2008 13:41:48 GMT -5 Libby said:

A recent scientific study found that women find different male faces attractive depending on where they are in their menstrual cycle. For example, when a woman is ovulating she will prefer a man with rugged, masculine features.

However when she is suffering from PMS she prefers a man doused in petrol and set on fire, with scissors stuck in his eye and a cricket stump shoved up his backside.


...works for me

OK Cleric Libby ... we have this very special experimental interval for you. However, for full effect it has to be taken with a handful of Belgian chocolates and a half-bottle of Asti Spumante, while reclining in a bubble bath. Naturally we can count on a tried and tested Cleric like you with such a hazardous test.

...only a half bottle? ..and just a handful? Surely a Cleric of my experience should test the full monty?

[Aedh]

For the record, in case anyone who wants to write might research the threads ... from studies, it would appear that while mood-altering drugs such as those available to-day (and presumably Prozium) enter an in utero infant's bloodstream in high amounts, research has shown that those same drugs, for some reason, are practically absent from lactation. Not that any good Librian women would breastfeed ... strictly EC-10 that would be, I suspect. Though it might very well be practiced by Resist-O-Moms.

[masha]

LOL breastfeeding is known to increase empathy and general love for humanity. That would pretty much counteract Prozium. I suppose the drug companies in the future could come up with something to keep Prozium from affecting the fetus, just like they now have some pretty stong painkillers that are OK for pregnant women (I think codeine is one of them.)

[Aedh]

Feb 1, 2009 9:48:57 GMT -5 masha said:

LOL breastfeeding is known to increase empathy and general love for humanity. That would pretty much counteract Prozium. I suppose the drug companies in the future could come up with something to keep Prozium from affecting the fetus, just like they now have some pretty stong painkillers that are OK for pregnant women (I think codeine is one of them.)

Interesting. That would lead to the ineluctable conclusion that female Clerics would be prohibited from bearing any children ... mandated hysterectomies. That would make sense as then it would force them to take controlled doses of hormones instead of relying on the body's eccentric instincts and desires.

I would also credit Mira with the observation that female Clerics would also probably have to undergo double mastectomies, which would clear off the breasts and make them readier for physical action as wel as decreasing the potential for feminine-related temptation to sense offence.

Of course male Clerics would all be for the chop right off the bat, but that one's a no-brainer. Then they'd take their own prescribed doses of male hormones so they stayed fit and aggressive and kept their hair.

As for ordinary citizens though, I return to an earlier point; that as far as the mass of ordinary people goes, you don't have to actually keep them from feeling emotion at all. You want to crush and inhibit it ... make them afraid and unwilling to show it, whatever goes on inside their heads. It is more in keeping with the character of a totalitarian regime to want to keep demonstrating their power by repeatedly enforcing it every day. This creates fear, and fear makes people easy to handle, which after all is the overall goal of any good dictatorial regime like Father's.

Every Evil Genius knows that an army of emotionless robots is less fun than an army of slaves who get ground under your heel morning, noon, and night, and who are fully aware of being ground under your heel and can do nothing about it. Then you can take your tea with real satisfaction in a job well done.

[masha]

I don't remember if there were any female clerics in the movie. If there were, I don't see how breasts would get in the way. If anything breasts would protect the chest area from injury so to a slender female breasts are a plus in terms of physical advantage.

[Aedh]

Feb 17, 2009 13:43:55 GMT -5 masha said:

I don't remember if there were any female clerics in the movie. If there were, I don't see how breasts would get in the way. If anything breasts would protect the chest area from injury so to a slender female breasts are a plus in terms of physical advantage.

There is a thread devoted especially to the subject of female Clerics--if any and if so--somewhere ... haven't got time to roust it out now. I think it's on the "Resistance Discussions" board somewhere. Many good points were made on it. If I can find it I'll post a link here.

[aikidoal]

You are right Masha, there are no female clerics in the film or suggestions thereof. It's just a popular topic for fanfic writers, especially to set up post-EQ events stories.

There is a thread devoted especially to the subject of female Clerics--if any and if so--somewhere ... haven't got time to roust it out now. I think it's on the "Resistance Discussions" board somewhere. Many good points were made on it. If I can find it I'll post a link here.

Ah yes, that thread was useful to point out who on the board was in the "barefoot and in the kitchen" school.

Breast removal: ouch. no really. ouch. keep your fic away from me.

You forgot that in some of anime *ahem* "homages" to EQ, the breasts were used to reload quickly.

[Aedh]

For Masha, and anyone else who may want to re/read, I found it. Here's the thread: "Female Clerics - where are they?"

In my own fics, female Clerics haven't undergone any, um, surgeries of any sort, either to remove their breasts or to turn them into speed-loaders. However, I do defend the notion that in a possible Libria, surgery on both female and male Clerics to minimise or remove the at-best-useless, at-worst-betraying reproductive organs would not be unthinkable. Clerics are supposed to be figures of dread and authority, cold and deadly and not quite human in the way that common citizens are--at least that's how I read the imagery. Surgery of that sort might very well be felt to help perpetuate that image and aura.

To kind of mesh this with the other thread, a brief and unscientific survey shows that while many countries allow females to serve in the military, including in "combat units," most of those who do still place some restrictions on women in units whose primary mission is to close with, and kill, the enemy (i.e., what Clerics do.) Of those that do NOT place such restrictions, among them being France, Germany, Nepal, Russia, Sweden, Eritrea, and New Zealand, the reports that there are appear to indicate that very few women excercise the option to join such units.

Interestingly, Thailand recruits and uses women extensively in counterinsurgency units--perhaps the closest analogy of all to Grammaton Clerics. Thai officers report that the use of women in these units leads to more effective results while minimising casualties because--to boil down one general's comments--women make better negotiators.

[aikidoal]

Surgeries: I grant you it's plausible, given the amount of genital mutilation in the world (hence the above ouch.)

It would seem to be a Libria 2.0 sort of move instead of the version in the fllm.

To recruit women, they would need something for them to have to push beyond their current atomic family model. The most expedient excuse would be some sort of devastation done to the population (war, sudden disease.)

So yes, plausible. However in fanfic you can do about anything. You can have clerics spontaneously make balloon animals in the public square if you want.

[masha]

The Female Clerics thread was an interesting one. Thanks for posting it. I especially liked the discussion of the over-use of the "deadly female" stereotype.

Some years ago a talk show host joked about the possibility of creating an all-female division, dividing it in 3 groups in separate living quarters so their PMS would synchronize, then letting them loose at the enemy one group at a time. Women do have a desire to kill, just not all the time

[Aedh]

For our new comrades, you may find some interesting reading/links here.

[cleric84]

Thanks once again Aedh ;D.
This is a rather difficult one to call on both accounts. Starting to think that prozium may very well have to be assessed on an individual female to female basis.
Would have to give both subjects some thought before i could really comment...Watch this space.