Megalomaniac's, School of Gun Kata

[Megalomaniac]

Abit confusing language but I hope you understand...
Practicle Gun Kata: [For Airsoft Usage Only]

Frame of mind, before starting any PGK excerise clear your mind of all thoughts. Then focus only
on the situation.

How to accomplish an excerise:
-Determine the Objective
-Determine the number/quality of targets
-Determine Possible Terrain (cover and concealment)
-Plot course of action based on the following factors
-Number/ quality of enemies
-Distance, Location, and placement of Terrain
-Physical Ability
-Execute, while executeing make adjustments and note every detail.

Physcial Ability is your limiter, the more flexible and the less surface area you present to your
enemy the better. One factor to consider is the exposure of surface area to a target.

Shoulder First
Idealy you want to be with your legs spread and a shoulder facing down into fire, this should be familar to any one who snowboards or skateboards. There are two stances under this group,

Intendo, which means aimed, grip your gun two handed and and with your predominate hand first. If you were to extend a ray down your gun's muzzle it should run parallel to a similar ray extened through your knees, this is your more accurate postion.



Celer, which means quick, for this postition you grip your gun one handed in your predominate hand, and extend your normal trigger finger across the trigger guard gripping the trigger with your middle finger, aim by simply point where you want to shoot. This positition allows for greater flexibilty while sacraficing accuracy.



Celer Off-Hand, The same as Celer except you hold the weapon in, and face in the direct of, your non predominant hand.



Please post your thoughts and Opinions!

[pyro]

after years of thinking and silence, ive come to the unfortunate conclusion that gun katta can not exist because of 2 principles: lack of sight and accuracy. firing a handgun requires 2 hands when wanting to have dead on perscion, plus a line of sight to target. with out these you are doomed, but dont let me stop your developments because it was bill gates who said that 'no one will ever need more then ten megabytes'

[Megalomaniac]

Who said that Gun Kata needs to hit with precision accuracy? All you need to do is to hit a person anywhere, this version is designed for airsoft usage.

[pyro]

Megalomaniac said:

Who said that Gun Kata needs to hit with precision accuracy? All you need to do is to hit a person anywhere

because anything other then a head shot would allow the target to fire back and hit you.

this version is designed for airsoft usage.

sorry, didnt see the desclaimer.

[TrustKill]

pyro said:

because anything other then a head shot would allow the target to fire back and hit you.

-not true. there are quite a few areas of the body you can hit that will incapacitate a target. as for instant kills, there is actually a bowling pin sized area in the center of the torso that extends up into the head and neck that will render your target dead. many militia's practice shooting bowling pins for accuracy.

-the only problems with gun kata are pretty much the ones that effect all kinds of shooting with a slight difference. recoil compensation is difficult for one handed shooting, but this can be dealt with by using smaller caliber bullets or profile compensators or even just heavier framed weapons. strengthening your wrists and forearms would also help combat this problem. the other problems lie in aiming with your weapons in awkward positions and all the hazards of firing close to your head and body. muzzle flashes will burn your clothes and the firing noise will render you deaf as close to your head as clerics fire in the film. besides, most handguns are not meant to be fired at awkward angles or upside down. thus this may lead to cartridge jams and misfiring.

[Megalomaniac]

Since this version is for airsoft and no where near as dramatic as the Gun Kata in the movie (...yet) most Trustkill's concerns are negated. Although he did raise a good point about shooting the weapons in odd positions (upside down) I'll have to do test and such but I don't think firing an airsoft gun (AEG, Gas, or Spring) will affect its preformance much.

[TrustKill]

it depends on how fast the gun recoils... if the airsoft gun's spring is too light, the BB might fall out before the hopup chamber, but yeah... you are probably right.

-the only thing i have had effect the firing of any of my pistols is my glock 18c. the slide lock tab is small and light and if you hold the gun too much to the side or upside down, the tab comes up and locks the slide back as if the magazine were empty. a small glitch, but annoying all the same.

[Megalomaniac]

Well I'm getting a Y&P Spring M9 (first airsoft gun that I will own) for a little springer war and for testing PGK.

[TrustKill]

i have one springer and its an HFC Walther P99. it is my first airsoft gun besides this crappy mock up beretta i bought at walmart and destroyed in like 2 weeks. surprisingly it has a lot of features to it, including a slide lock function. not really useful w/ a springer but it makes it cool as a prop weapon and stuff.

-i really want to get a ksc steyr TMP but i dont want to have to spring 275 bucks for one...

[Megalomaniac]

TrustKill said:

i have one springer and its an HFC Walther P99. it is my first airsoft gun besides this crappy mock up beretta i bought at walmart and destroyed in like 2 weeks. surprisingly it has a lot of features to it, including a slide lock function. not really useful w/ a springer but it makes it cool as a prop weapon and stuff.

-i really want to get a ksc steyr TMP but i dont want to have to spring 275 bucks for one...

Sorry to pull my own thread off topic, but don't get a TMP I'm almost positve it runs on HFC134a only. Get a KSC/KWA or KJW gas pistol and propane adaptor. (Green gas was proved to be just propane, and with the adaptor there is a chamber you can put silicone oil in)

[pyro]

TrustKill said:

-not true. there are quite a few areas of the body you can hit that will incapacitate a target. as for instant kills, there is actually a bowling pin sized area in the center of the torso that extends up into the head and neck that will render your target dead. many militia's practice shooting bowling pins for accuracy.

try aiming for that spot on 8 guys surrounding you with out looking...

gun katta isnt practical in real life gun applications and is probably impossible to do

sorry for derailing the topic again

[Mantis]

For all of those people talking practicality of gun kata and all of that;
A. Have you ever fired a gun?
B. Western trick shooters can hit an aspirin from the hip with a single action revolver.
With that in mind, I'd like to think a guy with a pair of semi or fully auto pistols can hit a man sized target in a lethal zone, probably several men in several zones in a short period of time. All it takes is practice so don't let the nay sayers keep you from somethign you are into, especially if it developes a skill or improves your health.
I shoot a lot of pistols (real steel) and play a lot of airsoft and can tell you that with some practice and good aim, you can pull some amazing shit. Keep it up!

[pyro]

Guest-Mantis said:

For all of those people talking practicality of gun kata and all of that;
A. Have you ever fired a gun?
B. Western trick shooters can hit an aspirin from the hip with a single action revolver.
With that in mind, I'd like to think a guy with a pair of semi or fully auto pistols can hit a man sized target in a lethal zone, probably several men in several zones in a short period of time. All it takes is practice so don't let the nay sayers keep you from somethign you are into, especially if it developes a skill or improves your health.
I shoot a lot of pistols (real steel) and play a lot of airsoft and can tell you that with some practice and good aim, you can pull some amazing shit. Keep it up!

your not understanding me, there will be no situation where some one would be surrounded by people who do not dive or doge for cover. in reality unless these people around you are just clueless, they would be able to shoot you first before you could fire upon them. in EQ, the sweepers were all confused because they saw a cleric shooting them and they were waring motorcycle helmets. [even the dark room scene, the sense offenders didnt know where preston was] but in real life your not going to waltz into a room and start firing at people in the dark, nor will you run into a group of people wearing motor cylce helmets carying g36s [how we do wish however...]

im not tyring to put anyone down but im just stating something ive been thinking for a long time, gun katta cannot exist due to the fact that your holding 2 pistols and firing at targets you cant see. now if you define gun kata as any gun you can fire accurately and to be able to hit targets you can see, well then i agree there could be a method.

also revovlers are quite different than semi auto pistols, good luck practicing shooting asprin with 2 of them...

[Megalomaniac]

Oh ye of little faith read the disclaimer, that my method is for airsoft only. In airsoft one hit anywhere is a kill, that makes gun kata viable. Also my method is'nt really gun kata, more of a gun kata inspired gun fighting style that should raise your surviabilty with a single handed weapon.

[pyro]

Megalomaniac said:

Oh ye of little faith read the disclaimer, that my method is for airsoft only. In airsoft one hit anywhere is a kill, that makes gun kata viable. Also my method is'nt really gun kata, more of a gun kata inspired gun fighting style that should raise your surviabilty with a single handed weapon.

again, im not talking about your method, im talking about real life gun kata.

more appologies for thread derailment

[ClericRyan]

First I just want to say that Megalomaniac's work here is just awesome and I want to thank Megalomaniac for posting this here.

I have not been around for a while, but this topic really got my attention, and so I would like to post my thoughts on the topic at hand.

First off, Let me say I am by no means a firearms expert, although I have fired over a dozen different handguns at the range, and many rifles and the two main assault riffles(ak47 and m16)

My expertise lies in the area of martial arts, mainly the Japanese schools, however I have a fair amount of knowledge about all forms of hand to hand combat. I am also Duponts homeboy but that is another story.

Il try to keep this short but my posts have a tendency to be long so, patience may be required here for reading.

First off, just to define Gun Kata: It is a fictional form of combat using guns, but focusing on the precision movements or kata of a martial art.

Now i realize that is not a direct and perfect definition, I suppose only Wimmer himself could give it a perfect definition since he was the individual who invented this fictional combat.

It is not a true martial art as the definition of martial arts is far more specific to a lack of weapons, or rather a focus on hand to hand combat.

Def 1
Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural.
Def 2
n : any of several Oriental arts of weaponless self-defense; usually practiced as a sport

That being said, it is important to know that many fictional forms of martial arts exist as well. Usually seen in fighting video games like street fighter and mortal kombat.

However the main question that I want to address is the realistic or feasible Gun Kata is, one has to also examine how realistic these "fictional" martial art/combat techniques are.

One example I wil give for this point would be something Im sure everyone has seen in many kung fu/martial art/asian action films. The super jump, or fly kick, or wall jump/flip. You know when the hero does a 6 foot jump kick near the end of the fight ussualy.

We have all seen this many times, usually in higher budget films that can afford to do good wire work. A common argument on many martial art forums is : COuld a move like this ever be preformed in real life/reality. As all arguments go, there is only opinion to really go on. However it is widely excepted among many martial art enthusiasts that such maneuvers or similar ones COULD be preformed by a master of Kung Fu or Karate, and possibly some other of the more ancient forms. Ok ok, before you start laughing and say this guy is a nut, hear me out.

The highest vertical jump ever recorded is, the world record high jump by Javier Sotomayor of Cuba with a jump of 2.45meters , just over 8 feet vertical height. The longest jump was recorded by American D.Powel at 8.95 meters , that’s 29.36 feet. Also anyone who watches pro basketball, knows for a fact that a 4 - 6 vertical jump is not even that rare at all. Now granted that this is not a direct comparison, but we are discussing the feasibility and realistic marit of human physical abilities so it is only right we use the proper world records.

There are some things to consider when you think about how this relates to martial art. The main thing being that neither of these world record holders were martial artists. In fact they had trained their entire lives in order to set the records they did. What you must then understand is that even those athletic champions, did not train as hard or as intensively that the great master martial artists did and are said to have done.

Sure by today’s standards they were at the height of intense phiscal training, how ever in Far Eastern history with literally no distractions at all, no entertainment, very basic but nutritious diets and absolutly no other responsibilities other then to become the best possible fighter they can be. This type of dedication does not exist in our North American society, since most of have far too many options and possibilities at our finger tips at all times, and all of us have an incredible amount of distractions and entertainment literally force fed to us.

In any event, it is in fact feasible then for someone who had spent their entire life training intensly, WOULD be able to perform maneuvers that would seem impossible to us.

I hope I have proved that point , if not feel free to IM me or post a rebuttal to that argument in this post.

And so we come to gun kata AND (this is extremely important) the world of EQ, since that is the fictional universe it was created in, first we must examine its feasibility in its native universe.

A Grammaton Cleric would need such extensive training, you might be able to compare it to the training that ancient martial art masters would have to go through. A comparable training program to a large extent because of the lack of any entertainment, and the emotional constraints and medication (Prozium) that would undoubtedly be required of a cleric in training, considering the universe.

I know this has become a long post, so let me try and sum up what my point is. It is no secret that humans only use a small capacity of their mental and physical potential. That being said, it is quite obviously feasible that given the right training and circumstance, a person would be able to do things that most of us would classify as impossible.

Regardless of how you feel about Darwinism, it is also no secret that in combat of any kind, the strong predominantly survive, of course excluding modern warfare of smart bombs and machine guns. However, if a person trained Gun Kata to the point of mastering it, there would come a time when their skills would require real testing. If you imagined a grammaton training centre, you would have to assume that high level training would require live ammunition, and in that case the selection process would be extensive, to the point that many, I would say up to 75% of Gun Kata prefects would be killed just in the training. However if one was able to survive that type of training and learn the forms and kata to the point that ancient martial art masters would achieve, then I do believe that not only is Gun Kata possible, but it would be almost impossible for a gun kata master to loose a gun fight vs. a person who was not a master. As it would be nearly impossible for a Master Martial artist to be defeated in hand to hand combat by someone who was not also a master of martial art.

Some of the points that were brought up about the challenges gun kata would face are very valid. "lack of sight and accuracy. firing a handgun requires 2 hands when wanting to have dead on precision, plus a line of sight to target. " Posted by Pyro

Also it was mentioned that pistol discharges close to your head or face can be extremely dangerous, however performing a fly kick off a 3 meter drop would also be extremely dangerous to a martial artist not trained extensively.

Another point was made about recoil, as this would be another challenge. As for modern day hand guns, there are a few ways to reduce that recoil, and as tech. improves you will soon seen recoilless handguns. Of course in EQ they use futurist guns that do not exist in our modern day world, however we are close to developing similar weapons. I realize that replicas have been made, however I am not talking about a replica.

And so that is the end of this post... finally, hope someone out there actually read the whole thing. My point is quite simple to just repeat it once more that not only is Gun Kata possible, but it would be almost impossible for a gun kata master to loose a gun fight agenst a person who was not a master.

[Megalomaniac]

In October the PGK project will continue since then I'll have access to a Gas Gun all the time. Simply PGK in its current form doesn't work with a spring pistol in order to properly cock the weapon a break in the fluid motion must be taken. I'm looking at two guns currently that fit my price range and requirements.

KJW P14.45 Para
-Pros:
25 Round magazine
1911 style gun
-Cons:
Its a Double stacker so the grips are wide, if they are to wide it may make using the Celer position uncomfortable.

KJW Glock 27
-Pros:
Small
Comfortable Grip
-Cons:
Since its a small light weight pistol the recoil is supposed to be aboive average, It also only hold 15 rounds. Another Problem is the lack of a metal slide which make it much less durable.

[Megalomaniac]

The Weapon of a PGK Cleric:

Marui has heeded my call are coming out with an Glock 18C Full Auto Electric Non-Blowback Pistol, with range and accurcacy comprable to one of thier larger Rifles. Its going to cost in the area of $150 dollars.

It has:
50 Meter effective range (Aprox 164')
900 RPM rate of fire
Ergonomic
100 round magazine (optional)
No Recoil

[Jack of Spades]

With lighter-caliber pistols, yes there's the issue of people firing back. Less recoil, but high accuracy required to put a target down.

Now, take a heavier caliber, say, a .40; and you'll put someone down with one shot near anywhere in the torso/hip area.

[Megalomaniac]

Guest-Jack said:

With lighter-caliber pistols, yes there's the issue of people firing back. Less recoil, but high accuracy required to put a target down.

Now, take a heavier caliber, say, a .40; and you'll put someone down with one shot near anywhere in the torso/hip area.

Stop derailing my thread, this kata is designed for AIRSOFT USAGE! In Airsoft One hit kills, so all it matters is that you increase your chance of hiting them while decreasing their chances of hiting you.

[TheCableGuy001]

Hey I just tried it on my friend (with airsoft guns of course) and it worked! But I only used one gun instead of two because mine aren't automatic. I tried the spinny trick that he does in the movie(right before he does the flip over the bike) and that also worked!

[Megalomaniac]

Hopefuly in two weeks I'll have my G27 and I am playing a game against a bunch of my freinds who will have springers.

[Megalomaniac]

Due to lack of availibilty and lack of funding PGK is on hold till I can get a hold of some kind of semi-auto gun. Fear not there will be a massive PGK update before the years out.

[Megalomaniac]

Wow, in a few hours the fate of PGK went from hanging in the balance to back on track wensday I'll be ordering a semi-auto, the afformentioned KJW Para P14.45, expect great things in the next few weeks.

[Megalomaniac]

I've been twiddiling with my KJW Para but it seems that the cold weather outside and the odd positons that the gun is put in during the motions of PGK affect gas guns and cause whats know as "cool down" which purges all gas from the magazine. But in afew days I'll have an Tokyo Marui Glock 18C AEP and won't have to worry about that. and PGK will be back on track.