|
Post by snufkin on May 8, 2003 7:01:00 GMT -5
No doubt the forum has a lot of threads but being a scumbag I thought I may as well start another one... One thing that many critics found odd at first was that the gun kata involves standing right in the middle of a group of assailants, most people say this is stupid but after seeing the film I thought it was quite logical really, I mean imagine you are one of the bad guys and your fellow bad guys are standing beside and behind your target. You are certain places where you are NOT going to shoot at and if the cleric positions himself (or HERself? Why no female clerics?) correctly and moves accordingly then the chances of being hit are slim. Not enitrely pratical, but still... Actually on that note, I wonder if Mr. Wimmer was inspired by Madonna's Vouge dance? (sorry. ) Other little things I liked about the film: Notice how the cars have seatbelts but the clerics (as passengers or drivers) never use them. Also is it just me or do the cars door windows and the badguys visors have two layers? one normal and one fogged? (black)
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on May 8, 2003 8:25:45 GMT -5
See I rarely notice this "little things" (except for Mary's red lips while in prison.) A friend of mine if I take her to a film she'll point out all of these observations right there in the theater. It drives me nuts. "Not enitrely pratical, but still... "Yea, I was bummed to read this by Wimmer... I don't think there's any realism in gun-kata. It's strictly a cinematic concept... I wouldn't advocate anyone try this at home.But...but...but...
|
|
|
Post by sabeltandcavia on May 8, 2003 11:53:42 GMT -5
Watch the white car the clerics drive... in some scenes it has white wheels, in other scenes just white hubcaps.
|
|
|
Post by skippythegator on May 8, 2003 12:26:45 GMT -5
I was going to email the webmaster of gunkatta.com but the site seems to be down. so I figured I might as well post it here... I've been having ideas of maybe developing a real, practical form of gunkata (I asked in an earlier post if any martial artists here had any similar ideas). Having been exposed to martial arts all my life, the thought was (is?) insanely alluring. However, I freely admit that I lack the skill to do so (for the moment at least...) I'm hoping to find some like-minded people who are wacko enough to not burst out laughing at this idea or at least some people who'll discuss whether or not it's a good idea. Right now I'm wavering between "aww, it's a really stupid idea" and "guns are a part of modern life, it might be good". So...any takers?
|
|
|
Post by sabeltandcavia on May 8, 2003 12:48:19 GMT -5
...it all depends on how you want to develop gunkata. If you're planning on developing a new martial art form from scratch, specifically to defend yourself from firearms: FORGET IT. It takes an incredible amount of work to develop a good working martial arts system, the movements, the technique, the training, etc... besides, it's too dangerous I think (can't really rely on an experimental martial arts system). BUT if you're more into developing something for fun and good looks, I'm willing to help. I'd say take a look at Tai Chi and Capoueira movements for style, and some Aikido and Wing Chun elements for effective combat. That should get you started, don't you think? Look at this site: www.bilang.com/ to download some movies..if you're looking for firearm replicas, check out some sites about Airsoft weapons, especially www.redwolfairsoft.com
|
|
|
Post by pyro on May 8, 2003 16:42:56 GMT -5
Also is it just me or do the cars door windows and the badguys visors have two layers? one normal and one fogged? (black) For the visors, it appears that they are clear and the guard wares some sort of a sniper type sky mask underneath the helmet
|
|
|
Post by cornonthecob on May 8, 2003 18:30:48 GMT -5
I think Gun Kata could work in real life.. but only to a certain extent. If you plan on standing in the middle of a circle of marines with m16s and dodging every bullet... well... good luck with that.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 8, 2003 18:45:35 GMT -5
I doubt that a Gun-Kata Martial art could be practically applied, however during the Cold War the Russians developed a tactical method of avoiding gunfire. They taught it mainly to their Spetsnaz forces, think SAS and Green Beret's added together into one mass of hard Russian deadlyness. Some KGB were taught, im not sure how effective it actually is or even how it works. However, some books are avaliable from small publisher's dealing in less reputable titles and I believe there is also a very rare VHS on the black market as this 'method' was kept pretty secret.
|
|
|
Post by snufkin on May 9, 2003 9:46:47 GMT -5
Despite what I said in the original post I am highly dubious that gun-kata could be done, it is purely a brilliant cinematic expression of trained action... Or something. The fact that we are all talking about it proves this, it is elegant yet strong and er, pretty cool! Anyway, my point is that it looks good, because it is for a film. Imagine how if Equilibrium was a book! It just wouldn't work!
|
|
Ark
Resistance Member
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams
Posts: 40
|
Post by Ark on May 10, 2003 0:11:41 GMT -5
Sorry, its too hard to me say this -
But when shooting 2 guns, they must be targeted in one point - your hands may be broken...
|
|
|
Post by skippythegator on May 11, 2003 21:04:56 GMT -5
sorry about the delay - Actually I was thinking of compiling techniques from real martial arts, based on disarming and avoiding being disarmed. The shooting skills would probably have to come from someone with firearms training :> I have some background in Chinese kung-fu (I am familiar with the stances and footwork), I studied jeet kune do for a year, and am presently studying hapkido. I was also a varsity fencer in college. I have absolutely no gun skills I understand that the webmaster of gunkatta.com is/was trying to develop a "looks good but not real" version, so I wasn't planning to get into that.
|
|
|
Post by DreamTheaterSFG on May 12, 2003 7:36:33 GMT -5
Actually the Israelis train for a certain form fighting that not only helps avoid gun fire, but also helps over come the odds of you successfully dissamring a person, with nothing but your bare hands. I doubt it looks like gun-kata, but its still some amazing stuff. Infact the Israelis have gotten this style down so well, that the US was shipping troops down there so they could be tained by the Israelis in this form of fighting.
|
|
Gualie
Resistance Member
Posts: 30
|
Post by Gualie on May 26, 2003 6:58:25 GMT -5
pyro, what the sweepers wear is called a "Balaclava". It's common in the special OP's/S.W.A.T. world. you don't want to be easily recognized when your out for dinner with the wife and kids and it ads to the mental sorm trooper shock when everyone looks identical.
ARK, If you have any practice with guns and are good it's simply training your mind to track two targets at once, difficult but not impossible. just takes practice.
|
|
|
Post by pyro on May 27, 2003 17:57:51 GMT -5
pyro, what the sweepers wear is called a "Balaclava". i was wondering what they were called, thanks
|
|
Gualie
Resistance Member
Posts: 30
|
Post by Gualie on May 28, 2003 11:18:57 GMT -5
I wwas watching EQ again (for like the 20th time) and started to think of this thread.
There must be seperate gun katas for diffrent weapons.
Of course the pistol Kata demonstrated effectively several times in the movie. But there must be a KATA for Long Guns (Rifles). Not really demonstrated by by Brandts use of one but by prestons disarming and utilization of one in the scene where his wife is taken.
The Shot guns in the sweeper scene could also be a hint at another one. Any S.W.A.T. or S.R.T. guy can tell you using a combat shotgun is way WAY difrent than using a long gun or a pistol......Or it could have just been Preston improvising he is the top cleric.
on a side note: on Kurts commentary he mentions that Bale actually did rack the shotguns by just rocking them from the rear grip. This seriously impresses me, that is some mondo HARD Shit to do.
|
|
|
Post by snufkin on May 30, 2003 7:10:58 GMT -5
Mere smilies can't express what is going through my mind right now, but here goes... ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by ExtraInEquilibrium on Jun 1, 2003 21:24:17 GMT -5
Some of you might be interested to know that I am going to create a 15-minute short based off Equilibrium in 16mm film.
The basic premise is that a Grammaton Cleric and a team of police catch a Sense Offender listening to music.
The catch is that this particular Sense Offender is master in gunkata, as well as other forms of fighting.
So, it should be fun.
|
|
|
Post by chicago27 on Jun 2, 2003 0:14:14 GMT -5
That sounds fun! Let us know how it goes! My husband is currently doing a fan film on Star Wars , I am trying to talk him into doing one on EQ!!
|
|
|
Post by BMaloney on Jun 6, 2003 19:36:00 GMT -5
Sounds excellent! ;D
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Jul 14, 2003 21:52:38 GMT -5
Reviewing the description of the principles that the Gun Kata are based on, I don't see how it could be possible. The movements and positions of the gun kata are based on the predicted placemet of antagonists in a firefight, proven through statistics. This doesn't seem very useful for self-defence. I can understand learning to shoot on a flat 360 degree plain of motion (though I don't know why they switch their guns over so much, it seems redundant), but how can one predict where his enemies will be when he opens a door and walks into a room he's never been into? While being able to adapt to
Also, wouldn't firing guns so close to your head give you really bad ear aches? And wouldn't the muzzle flare from such high caliber guns burn your hair? It would also be very hard to aim at a person you're not looking at. The gun katas work if all parties are stationary, but if both start moving the gun kata loses all effeciency to a total lack of accuracy. Just imagine moving, focusing on firing at a moving opponent in front of you, while shooting at a moving opponent behind you htat you can't see. It doesn't seem effective to me.
|
|
|
Post by StarDancer on Jul 15, 2003 12:19:47 GMT -5
on a side note: on Kurts commentary he mentions that Bale actually did rack the shotguns by just rocking them from the rear grip. This seriously impresses me, that is some mondo HARD Shit to do. Yeah, those forearms of his rock. ;D FWIW, in the silly sci-fi movie The Last Starfighter, there was a star ship that did a move similar to Gunkata, lol. The ship spinned and shot off it's guns, blowing away all the surrounding space ships.
|
|
|
Post by ManaBurrn on Jul 15, 2003 12:32:09 GMT -5
Reviewing the description of the principles that the Gun Kata are based on, I don't see how it could be possible. And wouldn't the muzzle flare from such high caliber guns burn your hair? It doesn't seem effective to me. Yes, that's why it takes years of practice and special cleric-issue flame-resistant hair gel. You're taking this too seriously. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Sonshi on Jul 15, 2003 21:19:21 GMT -5
Reviewing the description of the principles that the Gun Kata are based on, I don't see how it could be possible. The movements and positions of the gun kata are based on the predicted placemet of antagonists in a firefight, proven through statistics. This doesn't seem very useful for self-defence. I can understand learning to shoot on a flat 360 degree plain of motion (though I don't know why they switch their guns over so much, it seems redundant), but how can one predict where his enemies will be when he opens a door and walks into a room he's never been into? While being able to adapt to Also, wouldn't firing guns so close to your head give you really bad ear aches? And wouldn't the muzzle flare from such high caliber guns burn your hair? It would also be very hard to aim at a person you're not looking at. The gun katas work if all parties are stationary, but if both start moving the gun kata loses all effeciency to a total lack of accuracy. Just imagine moving, focusing on firing at a moving opponent in front of you, while shooting at a moving opponent behind you htat you can't see. It doesn't seem effective to me. On the DVD, the director of the movie says that the gun kata allows you to predict/sense where the opponents are going to move and shooting them as they move into that position, so it is designed to counter moving opponents. Also, most real martial arts do not teach individual techniques and expect that exact thing to happen to a person in a fight, they teach principles that are applied to all situations. So most likely the gun kata is not just a single kata, but rather a principle that allows the user of the gun kata to adapt his techniques to fit different situations.
|
|
|
Post by wulfman on Aug 30, 2003 6:18:50 GMT -5
I just watched this film and I was thoroughly impressed by the kata scenes. With that said, I think it is somewhat unrealistic to expect a style such as that to come to fruition within one generation. Not saying it isn't possible as I believe that the human mind and body are capable of so much, especially well trained ones. So to say that it is impossible to hit a target you can't see is wrong, since to think of "seeing" only in the context of your eyes leaves no room for heightened auditory senses. The brain creates images and actually "see." They eyes merely gather information, much like the ears, nose and skin(see TEXTDaredevilTEXT).
I see it being completely possible if you apply these concepts along with generations of training from youth to adulthood, combined with a fast mathematical mind to computate likely trajectories. If not, find a table and get under it. And not a multiplication table.
But it is possible to predict these things mathematically. If it weren't for that pesky Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, we could predict the future.
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Aug 30, 2003 14:02:25 GMT -5
I guess I view Gun Kata sorta like the Force...sure...I would love to see it have practical application but I guess I just lack the faith in the context of our current reality and understanding of physics/science. Imagination has often led to science fact later on though...
|
|
|
Post by kentaro on Sept 19, 2003 15:24:49 GMT -5
hey everyone believe me i have been practicing the gun kata and its proven effective.
|
|
|
Post by Giusy on Sept 19, 2003 15:47:01 GMT -5
hey everyone believe me i have been practicing the gun kata and its proven effective. How have you been doing that???
|
|
|
Post by Machiavelli on Sept 20, 2003 0:03:51 GMT -5
Id like to know how those slingshot holsters in his arms work for getting the guns into his hands. Derrengers in the old west used to have springed tracks that would push the guns into your hands, Id really just like to get my hands on those whether or not the gunkata works.
|
|
|
Post by Giusy on Sept 20, 2003 2:45:06 GMT -5
Id like to know how those slingshot holsters in his arms work for getting the guns into his hands. Derrengers in the old west used to have springed tracks that would push the guns into your hands, Id really just like to get my hands on those whether or not the gunkata works. Yep..... really nice stuff ;D ... but I don't think those slingshot would ever be made...... perhaps because they would be very expensive....
|
|
|
Post by Machiavelli on Sept 21, 2003 18:14:55 GMT -5
Well ive seen them in other movies like the el mariachi series and im sure theres somewhere online where you could pick them up. I keep searching but to no avail.
|
|