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Post by pyro on Feb 11, 2004 22:34:08 GMT -5
for the last time, everyone who doesnt know/confused about the gun switch and those that beleive in the EQ major plot hole, this thread is for you! you wont even need to sit down to read my explaination [if you are already, stand up]
THEY SET HIM UP
listen to father before preston shoots everyone by the lie detector... done [now you can sit down]
the time he did switch the gun(s) was during the execution of the resistance members in the warehouse, when brandt hands him his gun due to prestons low amont of ammo. and thats what that clip of them trading guns was from
FAQs: Q: what about that scene they show of him switching the guns?
A: that was a reminder of what happened in the warehouse
Q: when he hands brandt his gun before the dog shooting part, does he switch them then?
A: no, again he switches them during the warehouse execution part
Q: what about the trace? it showed that it was brandt's gun?
A: what about it? the trace was a set up too
Q: ok then, how many people does it take to kill 50 sweepers?
A: ah, a riddle. just one with 6 clips! ;D
this thread should cancel out all the arguing happening in other threads, fill free to ask more questions about the non-existing plot hole found in this extraordinary movie
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Post by dunno on Feb 12, 2004 0:53:23 GMT -5
but if they set him up, it would mean that by right the tracer should show Preston's guns, but they made it such that it showed Brant(sp?)'s guns. how could Preston be so confident that the tracer will show Brant's guns since he knew that he shot the sweepers before he exchanged the guns?
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Post by TrustKill on Feb 12, 2004 11:17:49 GMT -5
how about providing a willing suspense of disbelief? this topic has been discussed to death.
-thank you pyro for making some good sense of it and for trying to end it all...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Feb 12, 2004 11:37:53 GMT -5
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BATTY (Roy)
Resistance Member
"It's not an easy thing to meet your maker..."
Posts: 34
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Post by BATTY (Roy) on Feb 12, 2004 21:20:58 GMT -5
OK, how about this: -------------------------- Preston's pistol = A Brandt's pistol = B
Earlier in the story: Preston takes B from hood of car, gives Brandt A (1st swap). The swap goes unnoticed by Brandt. Later, Preston shoots sweepers with B. In the "Gun swap" scene, Brandt gives A (he thinks it is B) to Preston. Preston gives B back to Brandt, keeping A (just handed to him). Brandt notices the switch, believes that he has A (in truth it is B). Brandt arrests Preston, confiscating A. Brandt believes he has confiscated B (having seen the 2nd swap). The computer shows that the sweepers were killed with B. Brandt produces, what he believes will be B (as proof). Because of the 2nd swap, what he really has, is the confiscated A.
P.S. The whole "willing suspension of disbelief" for me, is the fact that their names are engraved on the guns (the magazine, specifically). *shrugs*
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Post by guest on Feb 12, 2004 23:39:45 GMT -5
hey how did u guys make the "grammaton Cleric" pic? can someone make one for me? I'll tell u my name
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Post by pyro on Feb 15, 2004 22:28:36 GMT -5
OK, how about this: -------------------------- Preston's pistol = ABrandt's pistol = BEarlier in the story: Preston takes B from hood of car, gives Brandt A (1st swap). The swap goes unnoticed by Brandt. Later, Preston shoots sweepers with B. In the "Gun swap" scene, Brandt gives A (he thinks it is B) to Preston. Preston gives B back to Brandt, keeping A (just handed to him). Brandt notices the switch, believes that he has A (in truth it is B). Brandt arrests Preston, confiscating A. Brandt believes he has confiscated B (having seen the 2nd swap). The computer shows that the sweepers were killed with B. Brandt produces, what he believes will be B (as proof). Because of the 2nd swap, what he really has, is the confiscated A. P.S. The whole "willing suspension of disbelief" for me, is the fact that their names are engraved on the guns (the magazine, specifically). *shrugs* but heres the thing, clerics have more then two guns. im guessing at around 6, so no matter how many guns he swtiches around, he couldnt have used them all on the sweepr team. as for preston not seeming worried about the tracer, i have three thoeries: the long shot theory: jurgen had someone on the inside change the database of tracies by swtiching preston's info with brandts magazine theory: if the magazine was the only thing used to id guns and also tracies plus stayed with the gun, then preston acomplished this by only switching one of his guns with brandt because the trace only showed one gun prozium thory: even though very unlikely, preston could have forgotten about the trace due to his lack of prozium
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Post by guest on Feb 16, 2004 2:26:27 GMT -5
have anyone here ever tried asking Kurt Wimmer about it? and can some one make me a gun butt sig with my name?
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Post by MisterAnderson on Feb 16, 2004 2:28:48 GMT -5
You need to register first if you want to have things like sigs and avatars.
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Post by JenGe on Feb 17, 2004 11:05:31 GMT -5
have anyone here ever tried asking Kurt Wimmer about it? The intetresting thing about this is that I sat through an hour & a half of Q&A to Kurt Wimmer in Atlanta last year and not a single person asked him about it. Afterward someone wanted to know why I hadn't asked him. "Moi!?!" I don't have a problem with it...why should I ask & make myself look stupid??
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Post by baleheadnutcase on Feb 18, 2004 23:09:55 GMT -5
Nice one pyro, but as you know...it's never going to end, because there will always be someone who points it out ;D quote] That's quite true, there's always new people watching the film (comme moi) and this thread really showed it. Thanx doods.
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Post by EsbenF on Mar 17, 2004 14:37:22 GMT -5
Okay, I have to do this - I know, I know, and I'm very, very, very, very, very, veryveryveryvery sorry. How about this for an explanation: ... got you ;D - naah, I'm not taking the old tedious path. As a matter of fact, I've now spent the best part of a day, reading up on EVERY SINGLE GUN SWAP THREAD, and to tell the truth, I got sick to death of it after completing the first 2! (after which all that came afterwards, was of no suprise to me whatsoever, and shouldn't be to anyone). So I have this to say, which I (for some strange reason) believe might put a little ease into a few minds, and I know will inspire endless rage and flameposts from the rest of the minds. YOU CANNOT SOLVE THIS ONE ! Yep, that's right! No matter how much you intellectualise about this, YOU (yes you, and no, not even if your father and old high-school teacher helps) won't be able to figure out how to prove to me (or most others) that "your way" is how this happned. This is due to 2 facts: 1: You don't know exactly how they traced the weapons, was it GPS, was it through ballistics or was it through tying a sack of oatmeal to the barrel of each gun and running around after them writing down the coordinates using a compass & a map... Regardless of how you theorise, it was never explained during the movie, you can't mess with that fact. 2: You don't know wether they trace both guns, just the clips, just one of the guns, just one of the clips or even the ammo. Once again, this fact cannot be messed with, and hence you cannot ever establish a theory that beyond all doubt proves that "this" is the way it was done. You can't do it, I can't do it. Only scarce few people in the world are capable of that, and most likely only 1: Kurt Wimmer. Untill we hear from him officially, that "aaah, no, THIS is how it was done!" - give it up. You're never going to convince everyone that you're right anyways - and the different theories / facts have now been discussed to an extent that no matter what you say, you won't be able to bring up something that wasn't already covered or 'nearly' covered. -Esben
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Post by JenGe on Mar 17, 2004 22:37:43 GMT -5
We're ignoring you... ;D
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Post by TrustKill on Mar 18, 2004 2:20:58 GMT -5
haha... i told him! i tried to tell him not to touch it. hehe, but noooooo...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Mar 19, 2004 9:06:46 GMT -5
Rage...taking over...temperature rising...hackles rising...
Cue teethrendinggnawinggnashingbitingrippingtearingnoises
Rage subsiding...temperature decreasing...hackles lowering...
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Post by Libby on Mar 20, 2004 7:52:30 GMT -5
*Libby hides from gnashing of Wolf's teeth!* ;D
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Post by EsbenF on Mar 22, 2004 5:50:24 GMT -5
Rage...taking over...temperature rising...hackles rising...
Cue teethrendinggnawinggnashingbitingrippingtearingnoises
Rage subsiding...temperature decreasing...hackles lowering... Hmmm... given the message of my post, you should be cooling down? Anyways, I actually refuse to take up a theory, as 'what I find most likely to have happned' since there's just too much information missing. I'm one of those math-freaks/annoying people to discuss things with - unless you can absolutely prove something, I refuse to believe it ;D Maybe I should try and prove the gun switch mathematically... that should be doable. Hmmmmm *ponders* *ponders still* .... *headache*
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Post by JenGe on Mar 22, 2004 11:33:47 GMT -5
Maybe I should try and prove the gun switch mathematically... that should be doable. Hmmmmm *ponders* Be sure to include a flow chart if you do. ;D
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Post by EsbenF on Mar 23, 2004 3:39:31 GMT -5
Be sure to include a flow chart if you do. ;D What's with you people and flowcharts?! If I only had a PC or a decent paint-like application for Mac... anyone know a good (free) one ?
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Mar 23, 2004 5:07:07 GMT -5
Hmmm... given the message of my post, you should be cooling down? Anyways, I actually refuse to take up a theory, as 'what I find most likely to have happned' since there's just too much information missing. I'm one of those math-freaks/annoying people to discuss things with - unless you can absolutely prove something, I refuse to believe it ;D Maybe I should try and prove the gun switch mathematically... that should be doable. Hmmmmm *ponders* *ponders still* .... *headache* I'm just playing with ya :>
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Post by EsbenF on Mar 24, 2004 10:35:37 GMT -5
I'm just playing with ya :> That's not gonna stop me from rambling on about random subjects!! ;D Bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla blaa blabla?
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Post by pyro on Mar 31, 2004 17:56:45 GMT -5
still waiting...
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Post by jmd on Jul 24, 2004 19:52:21 GMT -5
There's the scene of Brandt and Preston with the guns on the car. Preston hands Brandt a gun. This is the only scene SHOWN in the movie where the switch could occur. Suspend the disbelief and think that we just didn't witness the second gun being handed back. For the rest of the entire movie they were using each other's guns.
In the cut clip shown as a reminder of the gun switch, the only reason that clip was used was because of the dialogue. Preston said "in the end I think it's better if you have it". It's just a reminder that at that point Preston knew the gun wasn't his. That's all.
Wimmer doesn't do the best job making the gun switch clear, but the elements and explanation are there.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jul 25, 2004 5:55:05 GMT -5
It's not meant to be clear imho, it's meant to be up to the viewer ta-ta.
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Post by JenGe on Jul 25, 2004 10:31:07 GMT -5
It's not meant to be clear imho, it's meant to be up to the viewer ta-ta. I think this is a very important aspect of the entire film in fact. Wimmer does discuss this about the scene where Preston drops his interval on the DVD. He leaves much of the film up to the viewer to interpret. I think this is one of the main reasons I love Equilibrium so much. I get to think about different aspects of the plot without the director feeding me pabulum that he has watered down for me.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jul 25, 2004 16:21:26 GMT -5
I think this is a very important aspect of the entire film in fact. Wimmer does discuss this about the scene where Preston drops his interval on the DVD. He leaves much of the film up to the viewer to interpret. I think this is one of the main reasons I love Equilibrium so much. I get to think about different aspects of the plot without the director feeding me pabulum that he has watered down for me. Bingo Jen, because if you cross the T's and dot every I what then is left to talk about? Look at the way I tend to write, I hate answering all the questions, every tiny detail...if you get bogged down in the mire of such things, you miss the story and the point of it. I'd rather someone question: Why did that happen, there was no true evidence of it, than... Oh it happened because X+Y+Z were true, the moon was in the correct phase on a month beginning with J and the year was a multiple of the square root of absolute zero.
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Post by derelict on Sept 3, 2004 15:37:17 GMT -5
preston kills the sweepers with 2 guns, as the last position shows.
so, how can he have owned brandt's 2 guns, as all he swapped was one ?
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Sept 4, 2004 7:14:51 GMT -5
Preston only performed the moves, it was the stuntman that did the killing, the case was dropped though in favour of the true assassins.
Ninjas.
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murray
Sweeper
no stairway... denied!
Posts: 93
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Post by murray on Sept 6, 2004 15:15:51 GMT -5
the way i see it is:
one time the guns got switched. maybe two times.
then:the whole 'this gun was yours, brandt, you nasty man shooting al those sweepers' bit. but they knew it wasnt his when they said that. meaning they stitched preston up. ;D
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MaryO
Resistance Member
Posts: 26
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Post by MaryO on Jan 10, 2005 7:09:39 GMT -5
Hi, I'm brand new as of right now so if I say or do anything too strange, that's why. Also, I first saw the movie on 12/26/04. I really am new at this. If you've heard this one before, please bear with me - I saw Preston accept the gun from Brandt with his right hand. He returned it to Brandt with his left hand. There was time to distract Brandt and switch guns.
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