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Post by JenGe on Oct 24, 2004 6:06:45 GMT -5
The following letter was sent to me & since I know very little of the subject I thought I would post it here. What do you guys think??
Mistake in Equilibrium
"Hello, I do not want to sound pretentious but, there was a big mistake in the movie Equilibrium. In several scenes, there are people holding their katanas upside down. However. Katanas are to be worn with the curve pointing up. This is done so that when unsheathing, one puts his fingers only up to the handle, and then grips it with the reast of his palm, turning the katana outward and making the blade face out.
This is not a slight error as anyone who has ever had at least a day of training with a katana knows. I am not sure that it was intentional. Perhaps carelessness is to blame. I am sure the guards would not wear their katanas so that when unsheathed they would have the edge against them! In any case, the katana is to be worn with the edge up.
I have attached a link which I found quickly which seems to be reliable.
So, thank you for you time. I am no expert, honestly, I have only trained in aikido for 4 months, but it has already been stressed that the katana not be worn upside down. So, I do not want to exaggerate on a part of the film, I was unlucky enough to catch the latter part only, and I probably missed something explaining that, but I wrote just in case.
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Post by LoneClericCobra on Oct 24, 2004 12:00:39 GMT -5
This guy is right.. in a way. Katanas are indeed worn edge up, lest the blade be damaged in the drawing. On the other hand, that's the custom amongst _samurai_. Clerics have no obligation of doing the same. Maybe their swords are made of an alloy wich grants an undullable edge, and since they're so amazingly good they don't need to wear them edge up for their safety. Look, I'm making these things up, just for the sake of pointing out that this detail is hardly pivotal. Sure, it may make a martial artist cringe, but then again, which movie doesn't? The face-down katana was a necessary part of the showdown's dynamic. Maybe Wimmer noted the mistake, but simply shrugged it away since he would not give up such a cool element of the action scene.
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Post by JenGe on Oct 24, 2004 15:01:49 GMT -5
This kinda reminds me of a few gun mistakes that many films (not EQ) make such as running around with the finger on the trigger when the characters are not even ready to shoot or the "let's stick a gun in the face" scenario (Face/Off). The first is a sure way to accidently cause your firing arm to discharge & the second is to easily to get disarmed.
But since they are films I let them slide.
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Post by Libby on Oct 24, 2004 17:33:17 GMT -5
But since they are films I let them slide. Just like Brandt's face! ;D
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Post by LoneClericCobra on Oct 25, 2004 2:00:16 GMT -5
Dammit Libby! If I keep burst out laughing at work I'm gonna be fired! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Libby on Oct 25, 2004 11:10:11 GMT -5
*chuckles*...sorry 'bout that...couldn't resist...need more Prozium!
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Post by Preston on Oct 25, 2004 18:45:04 GMT -5
The following letter was sent to me & since I know very little of the subject I thought I would post it here. What do you guys think?? Mistake in Equilibrium
"Hello, I do not want to sound pretentious but, there was a big mistake in the movie Equilibrium. In several scenes, there are people holding their katanas upside down. However. Katanas are to be worn with the curve pointing up. This is done so that when unsheathing, one puts his fingers only up to the handle, and then grips it with the reast of his palm, turning the katana outward and making the blade face out.
This is not a slight error as anyone who has ever had at least a day of training with a katana knows. I am not sure that it was intentional. Perhaps carelessness is to blame. I am sure the guards would not wear their katanas so that when unsheathed they would have the edge against them! In any case, the katana is to be worn with the edge up.
I have attached a link which I found quickly which seems to be reliable.
So, thank you for you time. I am no expert, honestly, I have only trained in aikido for 4 months, but it has already been stressed that the katana not be worn upside down. So, I do not want to exaggerate on a part of the film, I was unlucky enough to catch the latter part only, and I probably missed something explaining that, but I wrote just in case.well, it is possible that they found a new way of using the katana, much like they found a new way of using the handgun. but it does seem a bit careless.
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ender
Sense Offender
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Post by ender on Oct 26, 2004 16:21:15 GMT -5
In my opinion the guards in the "inner sanctum" were realy there as a last resort, the thought that any one could get past that many guardswould have been nearly unthinkable, so the "inner sanctum" guards would have worn the katanas curve down which is the way gravity would dictate. i own a genuine katana, and the "belt hook" is on the inside of the curve, which tends to misslead anyone who is not familiar with these blades, as the scabberd would be tied on to the warrior with the "belt" going through the loop and aroud the sword to prevent it from waving around when running, fighting, or riding, this also means that it can be removed easaly, unlike western swords which would be worn with meatal armour.
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Post by Preston on Oct 26, 2004 17:30:48 GMT -5
True, yu have a point.
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Murasaki
Resistance Member
Anyone who looks that stupid is posivitely the one... - Rhodes
Posts: 26
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Post by Murasaki on Nov 8, 2004 17:30:59 GMT -5
Well, let me put a point here...maybe I can clear things up. As someone who has been practicing kendo (samurai sword style) for a few years, this topic reminded me about a discussion I had with my friends other day about the difference between Kendo and kenjutsu. Kendo, as we know today, it´s a unic style based in the real samurai way of fight. But as we see, kenjutsu is about all old styles together, independent and making each different style a part of a clan,or a school. In the end of Tokugawa period (1860), theses styles started to give birth to new styles with different aplications and positions,etc. These styles where reunited in only one art, called Kendo, in the end of 2º world war. Then, Swords became a sport, and people were forbidden to walk around with katanas. Boo! But some clans kept the tradition and training different nuances of the old styles...the thing about holding the katana down, for a Cleric, could be understood as a different style, that has nothing to do with usual kendo, and if we make a research and watch the movie again, maybe we could recognize with old styles make part of Clerics way of "slice". ;D
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Murasaki
Resistance Member
Anyone who looks that stupid is posivitely the one... - Rhodes
Posts: 26
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Post by Murasaki on Nov 8, 2004 17:38:45 GMT -5
so the "inner sanctum" guards would have worn the katanas curve down which is the way gravity would dictate. I´m sorry, but I don´t think such thing exists. Because a person which is trained to use the sword never let it go to a position out of the official, which is with the blade up. For a sudden attack, a real warrior must be always with the sword in this position(and I don´t think that the highest position in Libria would accept any idiot to take care of his office) ;D ;D ;D For a real warrior, the sword is "the extention of the soul" and the most precious thing that he has, because his life depends on it. Foa a warrior, the sword is part of his body.
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Murasaki
Resistance Member
Anyone who looks that stupid is posivitely the one... - Rhodes
Posts: 26
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Post by Murasaki on Nov 8, 2004 17:49:46 GMT -5
HEY GUYS! ^_^ I just saw the scene again. And I found something VEEERY interesting: Preston style looks exactly like Gensai Kawakami´s style(He was a killer working for the Emperor in Tokugawa age), which allows you to defeat at least 8 enemies with only 3 movements!!!! ¬_¬' Remember when Preston cuts Brandt? That is what I´m talking about. ^_^v About the guards on that office: looks to me with the style of the "Blind Samurai" which is a warrior that I´m not sure if exists or was just a legend. He used to fight with the blade donw(but only when he was fighting, the rest of the time he held it up. There is a special movement to take it off guard, and keep the blade down.) Hope I could help more...
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Post by LoneClericCobra on Nov 9, 2004 3:10:28 GMT -5
I dunno about single scenes, but in general Preston's style is, per Wimmer's own admission, Zatoichi's. Note the trademark reverse grip, the blindingly fast way of disposing of his enemies, and the knack for suggestive finishers (both at Brandt's expense, poor soul ;D) Pure Chambara!
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Post by ViolentMessiah on Nov 9, 2004 17:22:24 GMT -5
that wasnt a Katana. it was a Tachi. a katana is worn edge up under the belt. a Tachi is worn edge down on a sling. if you look at the movie again you will see when he is asked to remove his weapon that there is a sling attached to it.
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Post by pyro on Nov 11, 2004 17:06:45 GMT -5
that wasnt a Katana. it was a Tachi. a katana is worn edge up under the belt. a Tachi is worn edge down on a sling. if you look at the movie again you will see when he is asked to remove his weapon that there is a sling attached to it. the sling could have been made for the movie's sake. i think i remember wimmer saying it was a katana
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Post by ViolentMessiah on Nov 12, 2004 21:03:43 GMT -5
the sling could have been made for the movie's sake. i think i remember wimmer saying it was a katana i dont remember him saying that, but i'll check it out.
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Post by pyro on Nov 13, 2004 2:32:32 GMT -5
i dont remember him saying that, but i'll check it out. and your right, in the dvd commentary he says its a 'sword', my mistake. i think it was the handle that threw me off
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Post by TrustKill on Nov 17, 2004 17:24:59 GMT -5
long time, no see folks.
-the only difference between a katana and a tachi in the later years of the samurai was the way it was worn on the belt. katana were placed through the sash belts with the blade facing up, but if you took the same sword and mounted it edge down, hanging off the belt, bingo, you've got a tachi. samurai used to wear their swords edge down when they rode horses into battle instead of edge up like for foot combat. im not really sure why, maybe to have the edge pointed away from their vitals in case they hit a bump. -im not really sure as to why the clerics or temple guards would wear them edge down, but i do know that a principle reason the samurai wore them edge up was for a separate sword practice called iaido, where the sword was drawn from the saya and cut in the same lightning fast movement. iaido was developed into its own separate style and practice as the years of the samurai wore on. it doesnt seem as though the clerics or guards follow the practices of iaido, so they might have just thrown out the old custom long ago. -besides that, the blaring defect really lies in how the swords on the table are being stored edge down. this causes a lot of unneccessary blade wear and should never really be done for any extended period of time. unless of course in the equilibrium days they have some kind of new metal that can withstand that sort of thing.
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Post by ViolentMessiah on Nov 17, 2004 22:32:17 GMT -5
the main reason that tachi were carried in a sling is so that they would remain secure during riding, running, etc. it was a weapon worn mainly for purposes of war.
since Samurai wore the tachi and the katana at the same time and on the same side, the tachi was worn edge down and the katana was tucked in the belt edge up, which made it alot easier to wear since both blades are curved the tachi provided support for the katana.
a katana was more than a weapon, it was a status symbol and was worn at all times by Samurai but was removed for reasons like visiting someone's home, so it was alot easier to just slip the katana out from under the belt as needed than to have to undue a sling.
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Post by JenGe on Nov 18, 2004 13:32:45 GMT -5
I have to tell you guys that all of this stuff is a fascinating read since I have not a clue on the subject.
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Post by TrustKill on Nov 18, 2004 16:11:25 GMT -5
yeah, the katana was more than just a status symbol also. they were believed to have mythical powers depending on who made them and that the sword could pass on powers or attributes to the wearer.
-you may or may not have heard of the old stories of masamune and muramasa. masamune trained muramasa to forge swords in his own personal (not to mention famous and highly sought after) methods, but muramasa was maniacally insane and, even though his swords were as high if not higher quality than his masters, most of them were deemed unfit to be used by respectable men because of the evil soul inside the blades. one of the shoguns retainers was said to go crazy and after they killed him, they found his sword was made by muramasa. so on and so forth.
-its actually pretty interesting stuff, jen. there are a lot of books relating to the subject if you ever find the curiosity to look into it.
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Post by ViolentMessiah on Nov 18, 2004 23:09:55 GMT -5
yeah, i seem to remember a story about a swordsmith who was evil and since the katana was considered the soul of the samurai, it was feared that he might taint the swords with his own evil and thus corrupt a samurai's soul.
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Post by Achilles on Jan 12, 2005 11:39:46 GMT -5
the sword was worn edge down oh a horse because most of the attacks were against infantry who were on the ground, this edge down facilitated and upward slash (from low to high) across an enemy's body.
I have been in kendo and Iaido for some years now and there are many insances where the blade is turned down.
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 13, 2005 5:23:57 GMT -5
speaking of... id like a nice zatoichi sword. got my heart set on the hanwei folded steel version some time in the future.
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Post by Achilles on Jan 14, 2005 11:04:39 GMT -5
yea, or i have seen some nice paul chen ones..... and even though they are not folded coldsteel makes and incredable katana,
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 14, 2005 11:50:05 GMT -5
paul chen makes one that IS folded steel. called the zatoichi II or something. its pretty cool but i like the black laquer on the original better
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 14, 2005 11:51:50 GMT -5
paul chen makes one that IS folded steel. called the zatoichi II or something. its pretty cool but i like the black laquer on the original better. -if you want really good swords, go to www.bugei.com and check out their collection. im planning on getting the dragonfly. hopefully in a few months.
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Post by Achilles on Jan 14, 2005 15:54:28 GMT -5
been to the trading company many times, was saying that the cold steel ones are not folded. I like the tameshigire vids. you do any Iaido or kendo?
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Post by TrustKill on Jan 14, 2005 16:53:02 GMT -5
a little. mostly now i just do it for fun with a couple of my friends. we strap on some helmets and gloves and fight with shinai. it hurts a lot so people dont ever want to join us. sort of sad.
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Post by Achilles on Jan 14, 2005 18:21:17 GMT -5
...thats the fun part... what are friends for if not to beat mercilesly
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