|
Post by JenGe on May 10, 2003 19:08:18 GMT -5
Another guestbook entry that could make for an interesting discussion...
So what do you think? Agree? Disagree?
|
|
|
Post by arcade on May 10, 2003 21:00:02 GMT -5
I agree that we shouldn't compare the two movies. they have nothing incommon other than people in dark clothes using guns. that really honked me off when i read that tag line on the dvd cover too. i like both movies, but i don't think they should be compared in my oppinion.
Arcade
|
|
Ark
Resistance Member
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams
Posts: 40
|
Post by Ark on May 10, 2003 21:54:53 GMT -5
...different to much!
But I disagreed, that Matrix greater. ..
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on May 11, 2003 0:08:12 GMT -5
Ok, here are my thoughts. As Wimmer said many people are "action philistines who cannot distinguish between bullet-time and the lack of it, between wire-fu and the absence of it, between slow-motion and the lack of it."
The comparisons between Matrix and Equilibrium though inevitable are superficial at best. Both are action, sci/fi's with graceful gunplay and sequences...oh and symbolism. So yes on the surface the comparison can be made and the travesty is that many are only willing to scratch the surface.
When trying to explain EQ to the non initiate I usually do ask if they liked Matrix. If so then there is a very good possibility EQ will be enjoyed by them as well. Hey, if you hate guns, action, sci/fi, and symbolic fables you may as well check out the current chick flick rendering... EQ is not for you.
As to Matrix being mentioned on the box, here I have mixed feelings. The cover is not meant for us fans but the idle renter or DVD purchaser who is browsing the shelves at their local whatever. Its meant to catch the eye. Heck...if mentioning the Matrix gets more people to merely pick up the box and check out the film half the battle is won. At lease they'll know the film even exist. Personally I would have put the "two thumbs up" on the front of the box instead of on the back.
Please feel free to disagree with me...
|
|
Ark
Resistance Member
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams
Posts: 40
|
Post by Ark on May 11, 2003 3:00:37 GMT -5
May be u right, Jen
|
|
|
Post by MrsPreston on May 11, 2003 9:38:49 GMT -5
I agree with Jen that merely putting 'Matrix' on the cover will create an interest to people who have no idea what EQ is, (here's hoping it DOES get noticed - it definately deserves to be!!!!)
|
|
|
Post by Sus on May 11, 2003 11:26:10 GMT -5
Watching the new Matrix trailers before I saw EQ, I felt really, really excited, but now I just think "Yeah...its gonna be good. But its not Equilibrium." Its not like I've stopped liking the Matrix, its just that now to me it just pales in comparison to Equilibrium.
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on May 11, 2003 18:15:01 GMT -5
Here in is where Matrix and Equilibrium are very different; one is a comic/anime amalgamation while the other is closer to classic sci/fi's. With Reloaded we will probably see even further differences as the superhero/comic genre eclipses the sci/fi elements of the original film.
|
|
|
Post by cornonthecob on May 12, 2003 1:09:10 GMT -5
I only wonder if Equilibrium would have done as well as the matrix did if it had some proper marketing.. Eq will definitly become a cult classic.. but it could have been so much more.
|
|
|
Post by MANIMAL on May 12, 2003 12:53:35 GMT -5
comparing EQ to Matrix in my opinion is unheard of. I mean 2 different movies simple as that. I hate reading on matrix forums how everyone is ripping off ther ideas and shit. How EQ is just another rip-off of Matrix and shit like that. If anything Matrix is a huge rip-off of alot of things. I love both movies and i feel they are 2 diff. types of movies. And about using the matrix quote on the DVD is smart, since alot of people dont know bout it once they see matrix on the cover it makes them think twice bout the movie.
MANIMAL
|
|
|
Post by Balehead on May 12, 2003 21:40:34 GMT -5
I also don't think the two movies should be compared. Equilibrium definitely has more of a touching and meaningful plot than the Matrix does, but that's beside the point. I hate it when people always say how much cooler the effects were in the Matrix than in EQ. I mean, for Reloaded and Revolution they had a budget of $300 million. And they had something like $20 million for EQ, right? I mean, if you asked me, I would say I like EQ better, but that is partly because I'm in love with Christian Bale, and I think he's a great actor.
|
|
|
Post by MrsPreston on May 13, 2003 8:04:40 GMT -5
I mean, if you asked me, I would say I like EQ better, but that is partly because I'm in love with Christian Bale, and I think he's a great actor. Me too!! ;D I think the effects in EQ are soo much better, especially considering the budget and they didn't use wires! I also LOVE how Preston kicks butt so easy and the style is different too! (Of course some of the elements in the fighting are similar, because all fighting is at its most basic level the same)
|
|
|
Post by Spider AL on May 13, 2003 9:26:27 GMT -5
From a martial arts perspective, the Matrix simply cannot hope to rival EQ. The so-called "kung fu" in the Matrix was entirely unrealistic, very Wushu (fake, acrobatic Mao Tse Tung style) inspired, and... well it wasn't good from a martial perspective. Sure, it's harmless fantasy fun, but much more "Crouching Tiger" than "Enter the Dragon". Wire-Fu, in other words.
Preston's Aikido/Kung Fu combinations, most evident throughout the scene where he breaks that poor bloke's leg and arm in the Nethers, is far superior both from a technical point of view, and I personally think it stands up better from a cinematic point of view too.
|
|
|
Post by Sontin-JudasFm on May 13, 2003 11:34:08 GMT -5
Kind of tricky; I only saw The Matrix recently when I gave into my friend's gentle insistance (or incessant nagging) and it blew me away, but in a completely different style to Equilibrium. Watching it, I can understand why some people compare the movies, purely on the fight scenes, but they are two completely different movies; both excellent in their own unique way. To me, comparing The Matrix with Equilibrium is like comparing Die Hard with Aliens; both great movies but really too different to make a fair comparison. Just my humble opinion (BTW, in case any of you were wondering, I definitely prefer Equilibrium to The Matrix Heh )
|
|
|
Post by BMaloney on May 19, 2003 17:40:58 GMT -5
Well I know that Joshua Kelly feller in real life.. The truth is he's a Matrix fanatic and I'm an EQ fanatic. I just want to know why The Matrix fans can't stand having a similar movie to theirs be created. Are they jealous? Threatened? No... The Matrix has it's own class. EQ has it's own class. Why must they be compared? I say get rid of that "forget the matrix" slogan on the front.
|
|
BryanX
Resistance Member
Posts: 66
|
Post by BryanX on May 19, 2003 22:42:10 GMT -5
You know what, I'm glad someone brought up this topic. I'm really pissed the way people compare Matrix nowadays to other Sci-Fi movies that have special effects. It is just frustrating to hear something like that. Just because The Matrix exists, everyone has to compare movies like The One and Equilibrium to it.
The fact is, when people use the term "Matrix-like effects", they are referring to the special effects of The Matrix. Special effects such as the slowing down of a certain part of an action sequence or "bullet time". When people use this term to explain another Sci-Fi movie, that's fine with me.
But what I hate is when they say, "This movie is just another Matrix rip-off that should have never been made."
Arrrrrrrrrgggghhhhh! People who say something like that should be slapped in the back of the head.
*Ok Bryan, calm down. Take a deep breathe.*
"Matrix rip-off"...First of all, where the hell do they get off saying something like that in the first place?! Do they even think about what "Matrix rip-off" actually means when they use that term? To me, a Matrix rip-off movie is when that movie is trying to COPY the story of The Matrix but failing miserably. The only reason these idiots say Matrix rip-off towards "The One" and "Equilibrium" is because it is so easy for them to describe already what they think of those movies.
Let's look at this way, what if "The One" came out WAY before "The Matrix" and then The Matrix came out a couple months later. If this happened, I'm pretty sure to this day people will be referring to other Sci-Fi movies as a "The One rip-off". Goddamn it!
What these people actually mean(and they don't know it) is the SPECIAL EFFECTS. They have to realize that special effects technology today has revolutionized Sci-Fi movies. Sci-Fi movies that contain effects such as "bullet time" and slowing down an action sequence HAVE to use this effect that were shown in The Matrix. Unless someone came up with a different way of doing it then that would be a different story.
The morale for this post is: DON'T call other Sci-Fi movies(depending on the effects) a Matrix-rip off unless it actually IS a Matrix rip-off. And I already described what a Matrix-rip off movie would be.
|
|
|
Post by DragoTPE on May 20, 2003 9:34:19 GMT -5
As with all I can't really compare these two movies at all. there is only one scene that is similar, but after seeing the matrix again, i changed my mind on the similarities. I do not this, check the IMDB top 50 sci fi movies, note that equilibrium might get a little notice b/c it is so close to reloaded on the top 50 charts(my thought) and reloaded and EQ are so different i can't find a comparison point except martial arts and guns. oh wait, ....Spoiler below . . . .
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . I could be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure Neo didn't use a gun in reloaded.
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on May 20, 2003 9:52:34 GMT -5
Minor Spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . I was highly disappointed with the lack of gunplay in Reloaded but then if Neo can stop bullets what's the use. I thought of two other Animes that help in understanding Reloaded....Neon Genesis Evangelion (note the similarity between Neon & Neo) & Lain.
|
|
|
Post by pyro on May 20, 2003 18:02:04 GMT -5
Minor Spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . I was highly disappointed with the lack of gunplay in Reloaded but then if Neo can stop bullets what's the use. i was just thinking about this, if neo can stop bullets how come he cant stop other progams like an agent?
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on May 21, 2003 20:54:53 GMT -5
i was just thinking about this, if neo can stop bullets how come he cant stop other progams like an agent? Maybe its all about parameters or perceived parameters??
|
|
Mel
Resistance Member
Save me from the nothing I've become
Posts: 16
|
Post by Mel on May 22, 2003 14:39:28 GMT -5
The agents are kind of everywhere aren't they, I mean they can move in and out of any software, so they're probably on a different level to bullets I was watching the Matrix last night, and although you could say the films are similar in the broadest sense of both being sci-fi action films with a deeper meaning, the Matrix just didn't make the same emotional imapct that EQ did. To me, EQ felt so much more real, a struggle between the most basic of human faculties - emotion. I can't really describe it, EQ just made so much more of an impact on me, whereas after a couple of months, I could remember the overall story of the Matrix, but not a lot else. I think its inevitable that these, and all Sci-fi action films will be compared to one another, and as the Matrix was such a cult film, thats the one they're most likely to be compared with. Its a bit unfair tho, almost no one knew about EQ because of the poor publicity Ok I've had my rant now
|
|
|
Post by Spider AL on May 22, 2003 17:01:20 GMT -5
He can. Remember at the end of the first film, he manipulated Smith's program as well as the bullets. The Agents simply posed no threat to him at all as he had become the godlike messianic "One" figure. Well that's all out the window for Reloaded. Cheap, cheap cheap scripting.
Film 1: Neo transcends the need for hand-to-hand combat. Neo destroys Agents at a whim. Neo can fly, because Neo has transcended the internal simulated laws of physics in the Matrix.
Film 2: Neo's fighting hand-to-hand with agents again. WHY? Neo doesn't just erase the agents. WHY? Neo can fly, because it si an SUPAR POWAR!!!11
Yurgh. I think you can all guess what I think of Reloaded.
|
|
|
Post by pyro on May 22, 2003 17:13:12 GMT -5
Film 1: Neo transcends the need for hand-to-hand combat. Neo destroys Agents at a whim. Neo can fly, because Neo has transcended the internal simulated laws of physics in the Matrix. Film 2: Neo's fighting hand-to-hand with agents again. WHY? Neo doesn't just erase the agents. WHY? Neo can fly, because it si an SUPAR POWAR!!!11 Yurgh. I think you can all guess what I think of Reloaded. these type of things made me angry too
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on May 23, 2003 6:08:07 GMT -5
I think its inevitable that these, and all Sci-fi action films will be compared to one another, and as the Matrix was such a cult film, thats the one they're most likely to be compared with. Its a bit unfair tho, almost no one knew about EQ because of the poor publicity Ok I've had my rant now I think also the fact that there just seems to be a dearth of quality action Sci/Fi films leads to the better ones standing out and being compared. I mean what if the Oscars and awards were geared more towards sci/fi/action instead of drama?? I'm sure we'd witness a vast change in what is frequently being offered in the genre.
|
|
|
Post by BMaloney on May 23, 2003 23:26:16 GMT -5
Oh in response to that "why can't neo stop agents like he can bullets?" question, perhaps it's just that agents are freethinking programs and as the oracle said bullets are obviously just another program doing it's job, and Neo can manipulate bullets. Agents on the other hand think for themselves, and their only objective is to eliminate the anomoly, Neo. But remember, Neo kicked the crap out of those regular agents, but it's just that Smith doesn't have to abide by the rules anymore so he should be a bit more of a challenge. Try not to think of Smith as an agent.
|
|
|
Post by pyro on May 25, 2003 16:32:40 GMT -5
Oh in response to that "why can't neo stop agents like he can bullets?" question, perhaps it's just that agents are freethinking programs and as the oracle said bullets are obviously just another program doing it's job, and Neo can manipulate bullets. Agents on the other hand think for themselves, and their only objective is to eliminate the anomoly, Neo. But remember, Neo kicked the crap out of those regular agents, but it's just that Smith doesn't have to abide by the rules anymore so he should be a bit more of a challenge. Try not to think of Smith as an agent. Free thinking or not, they are still programs that run in the matrix which means neo should have some way to terminate them if he is really the one i wasnt talking about smith being an agent, which is plainly obvious that hes not anymore
|
|
|
Post by ASSASSIN651 on May 25, 2003 19:49:22 GMT -5
Think about it this way guys. If Equilibrium was made before The Matrix, would anyone say it was a Equilibrium rip-off? Of course not, most hardcore Matrix fans have no idea that there are better movies out there, and they just assume that The Matrix is the best movie ever. They are to arrogant to understand what are good and what are bad movies.
Period.
|
|
|
Post by Coolhand on May 28, 2003 14:32:23 GMT -5
I think the major problem is that The Matrix made such a huge impression on popular culture when it came out that it burned Kung-Fu+Guns =Matrix into everyone's mind. Whereas the Matrix is more than just a film about people getting shot and punched, nice though the shooting and biffing is, many people just lached onto the guns and fisti-cuffs. So any other film that has Guns and Kung-Fu is assumed to be a Matrix Rip off, even when the actual story and concepts are utterly different. This hasn't been helped by Marketing Men who always try and plug their latest action movie as having "Matrix-Like Fights!!" to try and grab attention (See the DVD cover of EQ for example. Damnned annying for those of us trying to banish the misconception that EQ is a Matrix rip-off!) As far as most Western movie goers are concerned, the Matrix invented kung-fu and gunplay, whereas in reality it was probably Hong Kong that gave us those traditions long before Keanu and Co showed up. I'm a MAJOR Matrix fan who loved Reloaded and has a Neo action figure sitting on my desk at work. I'm also a MAJOR EQ fan who would have a Preston Action figure next to it if they made one. I love both movies. I don't have to hate one and love the other. It's like Pizza and Fondeu. I love both foods, they both contain cheese and I LOVE cheese, but the dishes themselves are very different. Man, now THERE'S an obscure metaphor!
|
|
|
Post by Dude on May 29, 2003 16:21:11 GMT -5
Well...I just saw Matrix Retarded a few days ago (here in Sweden) and I thought it was pretty cool.
I dig the first Matrix movie, as I do EQ. I do NOT however see EQ as a mere "Matrix Copy". I find that comparison to be unfounded and pretty silly.
Matrix has clearly a buddhist thing going with serious focus on extreme hi-tech...while EQ's influence is clearly one of the old Teutonic Knights and the church (with the Clerics looking like catholic priests and "Father" being the "Pope") and the technology itself is very much secondary.
As for the effects, I think the difference is substantial as well. You've got these crazy camera panning things going on in Matrix (especially in Retarded), but EQ has nothing but a few basic slo-mo shots here and there...and is in my view not as "effect reliant" as Matrix.
Seriously, would Matrix be half the movie it is if it wasn't for it's trademark special FX (of which none is presented equally in EQ btw)? EQ on the other hand relies almost exclusively on "action" concepts such as the gun kata...which does not depend on high-end special FX (which is kinda obvious since it is a pretty low budget movie).
I actually find EQ more tasteful than Matrix...since it's focus is more towards story and concept, rather than "1000 cool ways to make a camera move and using CG (Coumputer Generated) effects".
Mybe it's because I'm European, but I easily get bored when the FX gets out of hand (if you've seen Matrix Retarded, you'll know what I'm talking about ;D ).
The second Matrix was cool, awesome and the FX blew your mind...but to be honest...I still think EQ was a better movie. A good movie can hold it's own despite low budget, and I think EQ proves that pretty well.
Now...if you'll excuse me, I've gotta go practice some gun kata with my kittens.
Peace
Dude
|
|
|
Post by truheart on May 31, 2003 19:23:59 GMT -5
TEXTTEXTi luv Equilibrium its more unique and interesting than Matrix 2, i felt Matrix 2 was over rated and over hyped there wasnt really anything groundbreaking or revolutionary about Matrix 2 iv watched alot of HK movies it takes alot to impress me now ! but with the movie Equilbrium it was amazing it was freshing to watch something unique and innovative i jus luv the idea of the Gunkata !
|
|