|
|
Post by JenGe on Jun 4, 2003 8:21:48 GMT -5
you know what else the T reminds me of? An 80s movie...The Keep. with all those T-shaped objects in the walls... Its been years since I've seen The Keep. I don't even remember the T-Shaped objects. I'll have to go rent it. |
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Jun 4, 2003 8:25:41 GMT -5
Another thing that Wimmer mentioned on the DVD is that we have vestigial remnants of past civilizations all around us (such as the use of ties). There are symbols and items every where that we have often forgotten meanings of and what they were used for.
|
|
|
|
Post by Balehead on Jun 4, 2003 13:47:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure if Whimmer meant it too look like that symbol, but he definitely could have. In his commentary, he said it was just supposed to be a geometrical figure- 4 T's all pointing into the middle for Tetragrammaton.
|
|
|
|
Post by StarDancer on Jun 30, 2003 13:56:18 GMT -5
Another thing that Wimmer mentioned on the DVD is that we have vestigial remnants of past civilizations all around us (such as the use of ties). There are symbols and items every where that we have often forgotten meanings of and what they were used for. GREAT thread. Glad I got around to it. I agree with Wimmer and the cross (T) is also a pretty prevalient symbol. My impression when I first watched the movie is that the Tetragrammaton was represesntative of the swastika. I know some people think it's sacreligious to think that, but it was my strong impression, made more interesting, when I found out the movie was filmed a lot in Berlin. I wondered whether Wimmer was having a subconscious reaction because he said that wasn't his intention. The symbol isn't exactly the same, but it is similar and the way it was presented, lent itself to Nazi Germany. Even though the Tetragrammaton is a religious symbol, in this day and age, everyone recognizes the swastika and what it represents, so strangely enough, it seems the swastika interpretation is more appropriate. Although... I think the discussion on the religious aspect brings a real richness to the symbol and what the movie can/could mean. It seems to me, audiences aren't satisfied with plain good and evil battles anymore. The more grey areas you have, the more interesting the story. It could be that the swastika was a perverted form of the Tetragrammaton. I haven't researched that, it's just a thought. Symbols are heavy in astrology, mysticism, the occult and religion, so there are sure to be some like-looking things. Which brings me to a more frivilous remark. I was cooking bacon and noticed my T-Fal (made in France) pan had a reversed tri-Tetragrammaton in the middle of the inside of the pan. LOL. (The T's are upside down and there are only 3 of them). |
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Jun 30, 2003 17:08:23 GMT -5
I was cooking bacon and noticed my T-Fal (made in France) pan had a reversed tri-Tetragrammaton in the middle of the inside of the pan. LOL. (The T's are upside down and there are only 3 of them). Its interesting what we find when we really look... |
|
|
|
Post by DrSkrud on Jul 2, 2003 14:23:50 GMT -5
The "Swastika-Image" was also the first impression I got from the Tetragrammaton. And for two very simple reasons.. Firstly, there's the whole "Fascist Nation -> Nazi -> Swastika" association. Then there's the fact that visually the Tetragrammaton symbol resembles the Swastika: what if the bar on top of each 'T' were moved over to the right slightly? Hrmm?
With regards to previous posts on this thread, I'm pretty certain that the Swastika originally came from some form of Asian (Chinese?) mysticism/religion/philosophy and is meant to represent "Infinity." In fact, I believe it is still used in China. (I read an article in a newspaper a few months ago, where toy bears were placed in Cracker Jack boxes with Swastikas on their heads. It turns out that the toys were made in China, and the symbol was meant to represent life, eternity, etc. but of course, we're so used to the more 'recent' events of world war II that the swastika has an inherently negative connotation).
As far as the Tetragrammaton itself, ExtraInEquilibrium already explained that the four Hebrew characters referred to by the Tetragrammaton (Yud, Hey, Vav, Hey) represent Yahweh. In Judaism, the Tetragrammaton refers to the "true" name of God, and is extremely holy such that Jews are not allowed to actually pronounce it as such. (Therefore, when reading the bible aloud and in Hebrew, one must instead say 'Adonai', another name for God, but the direct translation escapes me at the moment). So indeed, it should represent an awesome holy power, which would easily fit in to the way that the ruling party would perceive themselves.
|
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Jul 2, 2003 20:44:45 GMT -5
Hey DrSkrud, some very interesting thoughts there. I'll have to stew on them for a while. Thanks!!
|
|
|
|
Post by ClericEd on Jul 6, 2003 2:45:52 GMT -5
Just a note about the origins of the Swastica - its actual physical design is from ancient Greece. The Swastica pattern was used as decoration for all manner of pots/buildings etc centuries before it came to symbolise evil.  Its like the most normal, unevil thing you can imagine being used as the stamp of evil by ruthless dictators in years to come. Who knows, maybe in 2257 the Golden Arches will be a symbol of evil. Oh wait... did that already happen? |
|
|
|
Post by Tavolski on Jul 6, 2003 2:58:33 GMT -5
The Japanese word for the Buddhist symbol is "manji"--which means: "welfare".
The Nazis perverted this meaning for their own ends.
And just to appease my own ego, I'll add my opinion concerning the Tetragrammaton symbol. I believe that it derives more from the U.S.S.R. Communist hammer & sickle (or the 'The Wall's' crossed hammers). The primary belief of communism is that their is no differentiation betwixt the "common" people--this leads me to think that they infer that no one should feel anything (envy of another's success, material possessions, lover; anger/ despair over losing something or someone cherished; et cetera). I don't know, just one insomniac's opinion.
And so you don't think me ungrateful: Much commendation on creating and upkeeping this forum for such a wonderous movie, JenGe.
|
|
|
|
Post by ClericEd on Jul 6, 2003 3:11:10 GMT -5
I definately think that the Prozium-based society is much more of a Communist parallel than a Nazi one. Crowds of unthinking, unfeeling people going about their business like cattle - all equal - very Communist. The Clerics are practically the KGB.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tavolski on Jul 6, 2003 3:16:00 GMT -5
I definately think that the Prozium-based society is much more of a Communist parallel than a Nazi one. Crowds of unthinking, unfeeling people going about their business like cattle - all equal - very Communist. The Clerics are practically the KGB. Precisely my point. The Nazis felt far too much for the analology to fit properly. |
|
|
|
Post by ClericEd on Jul 6, 2003 3:40:25 GMT -5
Also, the buildings, architechture and uniforms are very drab yet daunting. Remember that this was filmed in Berlin, half of which was controlled by the Soviets for decades. The perfect set |
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Jul 6, 2003 7:09:48 GMT -5
And so you don't think me ungrateful: Much commendation on creating and upkeeping this forum for such a wonderous movie, JenGe. Thanks!! My pleasure!! Its people like you that make it so rewarding!! Thanks for posting!! |
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Jul 6, 2003 7:15:28 GMT -5
I definately think that the Prozium-based society is much more of a Communist parallel than a Nazi one. Crowds of unthinking, unfeeling people going about their business like cattle - all equal - very Communist. The Clerics are practically the KGB. When you consider that much of the themes of the film are based on 1984 and to some extent Animal Farm, the Communist parallel makes perfect sense. In high school though, while reading Animal Farm, I had a very wise teach who pointed out that its parallels could be applied to many regimes and not only communistic. The same is true with EQ. |
|
|
|
Post by StarDancer on Jul 6, 2003 11:39:45 GMT -5
I definately think that the Prozium-based society is much more of a Communist parallel than a Nazi one. Crowds of unthinking, unfeeling people going about their business like cattle - all equal - very Communist. The Clerics are practically the KGB. I agree, also. The Nazi feel only came from the flag with the Tetragrammaton symbol. The rest was communist, but I thought more of Communist China rather than Russia. The uniforms were what gave me that impression. |
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Jul 10, 2003 5:22:09 GMT -5
See the whole art burning business reminded me of the Taliban and their destruction of the two giant Buddha's as well as Afghanistan's works of art from their national museum. In fact, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that section of the film. Interesting though that EQ was made before these things actully transpired and were know here in the west.
History just keeps repeating itself so many of the themes in EQ will correspond with many differing incidents and time periods. Leaders who want to control their people will often use the exact same tactics that have been successful to varying degrees for generations.
|
|
|
|
Post by inkho on Nov 24, 2003 17:35:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Nov 24, 2003 21:45:18 GMT -5
Extremely fascinating!! Thanks for posting that!! |
|
|
|
Post by MisterAnderson on Nov 24, 2003 21:55:15 GMT -5
I think that the Swastika was more than likely derived from that symbol though.....all that is required is to take of one wing of each 'T' to turn it into that most infamous nazi symbol.
Thats probably how it came about, I'm no historian though.....its just my own observation & speculation.
edit: Just went back and read DrSkud's post - said a similar thing as what I just said...
|
|
|
|
Post by Witcher Wolf on Nov 25, 2003 6:32:08 GMT -5
Heh, Mr A, we see too much in these symbols, of course that means that the symbols designer - actually did their job properly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Xenia Onatopp- Bale on Nov 25, 2003 7:57:20 GMT -5
Heh, Mr A, we see too much in these symbols, of course that means that the symbols designer - actually did their job properly. I agree with you, Cleric Wolf. |
|
|
|
Post by cleric25 on Aug 6, 2006 1:49:42 GMT -5
Just a note about the origins of the Swastica - its actual physical design is from ancient Greece. The Swastica pattern was used as decoration for all manner of pots/buildings etc centuries before it came to symbolise evil. Its like the most normal, unevil thing you can imagine being used as the stamp of evil by ruthless dictators in years to come. Who knows, maybe in 2257 the Golden Arches will be a symbol of evil. Oh wait... did that already happen? as well as the swastica being a sunwheel in norse religion. seen as a positive symbol......also keep lookin at this symbol and my obsession with this movie leads me to believe ill be gettin a tattoo of this. |
|
|
|
Post by JenGe on Aug 6, 2006 10:17:14 GMT -5
When you get your tattoo I want to see pictures!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by cleric25 on Aug 6, 2006 12:46:24 GMT -5
not a problem. i kept lookin at that symbol last night while watchin the movie and it just looks like it make a perfect tattoo....gonna had a few things to it just to make it stand out.
|
|
kizure
Sense Offender
Posts: 7
|
Post by kizure on Aug 16, 2006 14:15:09 GMT -5
ok... im sorry to do this, but ive been reading the whole time how the swastika could have come from the tetragrammaton...it didnt. its been proven that it comes from a chinese symbol of good luck, it is the reverse of a swastika, basicaly its the same thing, it only has the lines in the opposite direction.
|
|
kizure
Sense Offender
Posts: 7
|
Post by kizure on Aug 16, 2006 14:16:39 GMT -5
|
|
