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Post by ginxy on Jan 15, 2007 13:04:42 GMT -5
I actually flipped through this one ... I second the notion that it's Laurell K. Hamilton-esque, with, I'd say a hefty shot of Johanna Lindsey serum ... certainly lots of sex ... lots and lots of sex ... not bad plotting ... did I mention there's sex? Wow...ok...lol....uh...I hope it's a good book none-the-less.
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Post by Aedh on Jan 15, 2007 16:08:12 GMT -5
Well, there you go then! Lots of sex ... what else do you need for a good story? Except, of course, usurpers' heads adorning the Tower ... *fingers red rose*
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Post by ginxy on Jan 15, 2007 18:41:23 GMT -5
Wow...ok...lol....uh...I hope it's a good book none-the-less. [But Ginxy...how could it not be? There's lots of sex in it.....apparently.... ;D ] hahhaha.....well, let's just say that there could be sex in the book but if it's not well-written sex and scorn then it's just soft-core porn and well, I can write that myself why would I buy it LMAO...... hmmmm.....maybe I should stop writing my children's book and switch to vampire soft-core heat.........lol......nahhh, I'd rather illustrate a children's book instead of well illustrating some clearly EC-10 relations......lol...
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Post by Aedh on Jan 16, 2007 4:22:05 GMT -5
[But Ginxy...how could it not be? There's lots of sex in it.....apparently.... ;D ] hahhaha.....well, let's just say that there could be sex in the book but if it's not well-written sex and scorn then it's just soft-core porn and well, I can write that myself why would I buy it LMAO...... Hmmm .... that sounds like ... poorly-written sex equals soft-core porn ... does that mean, then, that well-written sex would not equal soft-core porn ...? Hmmmm ... Any thoughts Mira ...?
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 16, 2007 5:17:44 GMT -5
Nowt wrong with a bit of EC-XXX
*grin*
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Post by Aedh on Jan 16, 2007 11:29:53 GMT -5
Ummm....*looks around in panic* ...I'll get me coat? *watches Mira and her coat disappear into the sunset ... too bad, she looked rather smart in it ... * Speaking of bats and doggies ... I've been dipping into "Transylvania: A Short History" by Istvan Lazar (or Lazar Istvan ... it's hard to tell with these Magyars), especially the chapters on Princes Gabor Bethlen (1613-1629) and Gyorgy Rakoczy I (1630-1648). Especially interesting to note that, though not ethnically separate from the surrounding peoples, Transylvanians had great pride of place, and always felt rather slagged off at being airily handed off to Hungary and Romania by turns.
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Post by ginxy on Jan 16, 2007 16:29:38 GMT -5
hahhaha.....well, let's just say that there could be sex in the book but if it's not well-written sex and scorn then it's just soft-core porn and well, I can write that myself why would I buy it LMAO...... Hmmm .... that sounds like ... poorly-written sex equals soft-core porn ... does that mean, then, that well-written sex would not equal soft-core porn ...? Hmmmm ... Any thoughts Mira ...? hmmmm.......well, I just meant that some sex can be poorly written and then you're kinda laughin' your way through it and throwing the book across the room - however, some 'scenes' are written well and you......geez I'm just diggin' myself inta a hole or something. LOL - If I'm taking the time to read something I want it to be good. 'nuff said lol...... ;D [runs away to catch up with Mira]
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Post by Aedh on Jan 16, 2007 19:02:43 GMT -5
LOL - If I'm taking the time to read something I want it to be good. 'nuff said lol...... ;D [runs away to catch up with Mira]*looks around rapidly-emptying field, over at Cleric Gothic ... goes to collect net profit of 2d ... luckily, this is the fifteenth century and 2d suffices to buy several tankards of ale; gestures to comrade* Come along ... a toast to good King Richard, and confusion to traitors!
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 17, 2007 6:56:21 GMT -5
*sings*
Good King Wench-Less last looked out, oops, did I say Wench Less? *hic*
*bwhahaha*
Re: Transylvania, I never knew that about them -- but it kind of fits from what I know of the people and the country, they are still extremely superstitious over there even now aren't they?
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Post by Aedh on Jan 17, 2007 12:19:16 GMT -5
Well, with the disappearance of many of the local ethnic Jews and Germans (Saxons and 'Svabes') during and after the War, the Romano-Magyar duality has increased ... but the concentration of Tzigane (Gypsy) people has also increased, and they have started to think of themselves as a nationality. The resistance to Ceaucescu in the '80s broke out in that area ... most Transylvanians seem to be a bit more satisfied to be part of Romania--where they feel they have more weight--than Hungary, where they were essentially treated as a 'back-yard.' Most of the people continue to be religious, though for most of the young it seems to be more an affair of displaying their local patriotism than anything else. And they do play up the local traditions/superstitions for the tourists, naturally.
*Leads chorus* Eryri wen, Frenhines bur, Daearol ferch y ne ... Mewn awyr las ac wybren gyr, Ac yn dy sainctedd le ... Yn fab y mynydd-hwn y'm Gwnaed; I dy ofni er erioed; Mae tan yn rhedeg trwy fy ngwaed, Pan safwyf wrthdy droed ...
*drifts off to sleep, head in puddle of ale ... dreams of eagles soaring about the majestic crag of Snowdon ...*
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Post by Aedh on Jan 17, 2007 18:27:16 GMT -5
Have acquired the second ... naturally ... of the three Books of Ler that Mira recommended. Haven't read it yet; waiting patiently to acquire the other two--but dipped into it briefly. Apart from the usual background flaws--I've more or less given up on any fantasy writer being able to create really believable deep culture and history in which to ground his or her world--looks like a good premise with vivid, ingratiating characters.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 17, 2007 18:36:43 GMT -5
I think to create something like that would take several lifetimes of tuning, which is something that until they can get the whole reincarnation with memories sorted, we're unlikely to see. The big problem is that as a whole the fantasy genre is a victim of its own fame.
The Brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Anderson, Wagner and many early authors/creators made a mould - Tolkien reforged that mould but with it came many cliches and set archetypes/designs. David Gemmell, David Eddings and even in some cases George R.R. Martin have the problem that they had to battle the preconceptions of the reader already.
A truly original fantasy world I think is fairly impossible these days since the genre is so diluted now with elves, dwarves, wizards and goblins that you can't move for an orc or troll these days trying to steal your cigarettes.
One of the reasons I prefer Dark(er) Fantasy is that the parameters are definitely different, there's more room for experimentation and character interaction say compared to the traditional elf, dwarf, wizard, talking falcon and their pet hobbit. Not to say that all modern fantasy is bad at all, but the majority of it has been pre-cast and pre-judged before the author has had a chance to even write.
And lo it was.
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Post by Aedh on Jan 17, 2007 18:56:49 GMT -5
Not to say that all modern fantasy is bad at all, but the majority of it has been pre-cast and pre-judged before the author has had a chance to even write. Agreed there, Senior ... *thinks* *thinking still ... looking long ... long ... at the gauntlet on the ground ... and then, a bit stiffly perhaps--bends down and takes it up.*
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Post by ginxy on Jan 18, 2007 10:02:55 GMT -5
One of the reasons I prefer Dark(er) Fantasy is that the parameters are definitely different, there's more room for experimentation and character interaction say compared to the traditional elf, dwarf, wizard, talking falcon and their pet hobbit. Not to say that all modern fantasy is bad at all, but the majority of it has been pre-cast and pre-judged before the author has had a chance to even write. I agree. I mostly like the darker fantasy. However, if someone recommends a book then I might pick it up/check it out to see what it's all about. I love it when I find a good book that makes you feel like reading it was worth while. It's like a hunt all in it's own though.....sometimes...... I've more or less given up on any fantasy writer being able to create really believable deep culture and history in which to ground his or her world--looks like a good premise with vivid, ingratiating characters. I haven't given up - but it would be nice to come across more people that really throw themselves into writing the book - breaking molds and making a new spot for themselves. Sure I like elves.....but I think it's even more creative and fun when people stray outside of the box. There are plenty of dark demons and superstitions to fuel a good fantasy/mystery novel - people just need to dig deeper.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 18, 2007 16:11:30 GMT -5
*waggles his brows at Mira*
It is one of the reasons I created Hestonia (the setting for Fate's Hand) because if I was going to have a Dark Fantasy world. I wanted one with Gun Kata, Grammaton Clerics and oher things that I am quite fond of.
If you are going to write about elves, at least don't call them elves and make them more than just highly decorated (good at everything) barbie dolls.
*grin*
It will see the light of day as a published book, but I am seriously working on it in-between exciting new projects in the game industry.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 18, 2007 16:13:26 GMT -5
Not to say that all modern fantasy is bad at all, but the majority of it has been pre-cast and pre-judged before the author has had a chance to even write. Agreed there, Senior ... *thinks* *thinking still ... looking long ... long ... at the gauntlet on the ground ... and then, a bit stiffly perhaps--bends down and takes it up.* Not so much a gauntlet but a serious pet peeve of mine is that some people will cast something off, even if you mention the word fantasy in it. It is one of the reasons I love the moniker that was given to Fate's Hand by someone: Steampunk Rennaisance (Dark Fantasy) -- so cool!
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Post by Aedh on Jan 18, 2007 19:37:36 GMT -5
*meditates* I think Tolkien worked rather too well ... too many people tempted to follow in his path ... he had the supreme artist's gift--leaving his audience wanting more ... so they supplied it themselves.
I think there's new trails to blaze out there ... somewhere .... *peers into the "vile, thicke, and stinking Fogge ..." seems to discern a vague shape or two ...*
*hears drunken singing ... in Irish* 'Sdeath! London ... we got a problem ...
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 19, 2007 7:17:15 GMT -5
Aedh: Yep. Tolkien made a mould that a lot of people seem to re-use and re-hash. I think I've had several talks with MaWa on this subject as well, she like me, abhors the cliches of fantasy...but I think you have to have some of them to appeal to a wider audience.
It is knowing what to keep, what to discard and what to change that is the tricky part.
It is the same with tabletop roleplaying games, there are dozens of pure elves/dwarves/wizards and happy halfling settings out there for various systems...there are a few that shine even though they are generic fantasy.
One of the reasons I poked around Whitewolf's Exalted system was I needed to run something that was fantasy, but took it's cues from a wide array of ancient mythologies and legends. It might be gloriously over the top and overpowered in places but it's a lot of fun and more importantly...not an elf in sight.
There are new trails for certain and I think, without showing any ego, that some of us here on the EQ forums have begun to follow those...myself...yourself...Libby...MaWa and quite a few others.
ginxy: Finding those books is really hard these days, for every Song of Ice and Fire you have an Eragon for instance...there's something about Eragon that just rubs me up the wrong way.
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Post by ginxy on Jan 19, 2007 9:47:54 GMT -5
*waggles his brows at Mira* It is one of the reasons I created Hestonia (the setting for Fate's Hand) because if I was going to have a Dark Fantasy world. I wanted one with Gun Kata, Grammaton Clerics and oher things that I am quite fond of. If you are going to write about elves, at least don't call them elves and make them more than just highly decorated (good at everything) barbie dolls. *grin* It will see the light of day as a published book, but I am seriously working on it in-between exciting new projects in the game industry. I must say I enjoy reading your work ;D Game Industry - would that be board game or vid games?
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Post by Aedh on Jan 19, 2007 9:55:54 GMT -5
Eragon ... *shudders*
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 19, 2007 10:16:07 GMT -5
I must say I enjoy reading your work ;D Game Industry - would that be board game or vid games? Console, PC and tabletop RPG games And thanks, glad you enjoy it! There should be a little more FH on the horizon soon :>
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 19, 2007 10:16:38 GMT -5
*chuckles* I get that reaction from most people I know.
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Post by mawa on Jan 19, 2007 10:21:30 GMT -5
Speaking of originality and stereotypes - IMO, it's very hard to write something 100% non-stereotypical. Some motives just happen and are repeated, often involuntarily. But - as Wolf mentioned - I came to hate generic fantasy, where the only things that differ from the rest are the characters' names As for dwarves, elves and such - I suspect that those kinds of stereotypes come from the writer's lazyness. When one says "elf" the reader already has a mental image of a tall, slender and sophisticated creature with spiked ears. When one says: "dwarf" the reader gets an image of a small, tough grumpy fellow with an axe. When it comes to invent a new race, culture and so on, one has to describe everything from the start and actually think it over. As for "Eragon" - I read it when I saw a review somewhere stating that this book is so bad that every writer should read it in order to see, how he shouldn't write. To my surprise it was kinda readable - could that mean that my skills aren't much better? As far as I didn't have that many problems with Eragon as expected, I just couldn't get past "Eldest". Man, that was sheer horror.
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Post by Witcher Wolf on Jan 19, 2007 10:52:34 GMT -5
I think you might have hit the nail on the head there MaWa. It is easier for the writer to use the generic elf, dwarf, wizard, goblin and orc rather than invent a whole new race or species. I tend to call this MMORPG syndrome.
There's only one World of Warcraft, play one MMO you've kind of played them all.
But that's another rant entirely.
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Post by mawa on Jan 19, 2007 11:28:42 GMT -5
As for profession rather than races - in those cases there is far more room for invention. For instance: I noticed that wizard characters, being probably the most overused ones give, oddly enough, plenty of room for author's creativity. It's only the problem that in generic fantasy they are mainly presented merely as a wand-waving spellcasters, while there are more possibilities. For instance: given the fact that in many fantasy novels magic is supposed to replace science ( in terms of power and sheer potential of destruction ), one has to ask: why not give a magician a more scientific approach to his profession? Or make the system itself a bit more scientific ( by creating some sets of rules )? Just thinking. Maybe my opinion is biased by the fact that I have a weakness for well-written magic and I'm working on a story, strongly based upon it. So I'll just shut up for now And as for races - geez, there are zillions of possibilities. For my purposes, I invented two - and that means that this isn't really complicated. But yeah, one has to think things through.
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Post by ginxy on Jan 19, 2007 11:38:21 GMT -5
I must say I enjoy reading your work ;D Game Industry - would that be board game or vid games? Console, PC and tabletop RPG games And thanks, glad you enjoy it! There should be a little more FH on the horizon soon :> Cool - my brother works in the game industry too. I haven't seen Eragon - but I have the book (and one day I'll read that book lol). And imo - The entire Harry Potter series isn't that well written - but I like that concept and the characters so I bear with it. As for stories that have magic replacing science. I have to say that I really enjoy the Soulfire TPB and series. Where magic ruled the world and then was wiped out and replaced by science. The types of magic and characters are unique in some aspects and the artwork/coloring is very intoxicating imo.
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Post by mawa on Jan 19, 2007 15:37:43 GMT -5
Speaking of Brooks - the only book of him I read was First King of Shannara. I can't say it was especially original, mildly speaking, but - from what I remember - it had a distinct, dark mood which I liked.
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Post by mawa on Jan 19, 2007 15:55:55 GMT -5
As for stories that have magic replacing science. I have to say that I really enjoy the Soulfire TPB and series. Where magic ruled the world and then was wiped out and replaced by science. The types of magic and characters are unique in some aspects and the artwork/coloring is very intoxicating imo. I noticed this just a moment ago. Hm, that isn't quite the thing I meant. Perhaps, instead of replace I should have said substitute. I mean, in average fantasy science doesn't fit to well, so some of its functions are replaced by magic. In numerous bad fantasy novels I encountered and which titles I have forgotten a long time ago magic seems to be limited solely to extra firepower, while there are many more aspects to be considered - say, the wizards as those who cultivate and preserve the world's knowledge - both of the humanities ( at least part of it ) and the sciences ( at least such things as human anatomy, astronomy, some physics etc. ) I don't know if I speak clearly - hopefully yes. As for magic being wiped out and replaced by science - or something that resembles science - without looking too far I would point at Wolf's Fate's Hand ;D ;D
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Post by Walldude on Jan 19, 2007 16:14:26 GMT -5
Hey Ginx, you ever see the animated movie Wizards? You'd love it, it's full on Magic vs Science and it's just brilliant. www.imdb.com/title/tt0076929/Only 7 days till Timothy Zahn's new Star Wars book Alligence. It takes place between eps 4 & 5 and apparently deals with Mara Jade serving the Emperor. Can't wait.
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Post by Gothicgds on Jan 19, 2007 18:33:01 GMT -5
[*produce black pudding from pocket...wave under setter's nose then lob it away...dog follows pudding......jump up..whip off clogs and hurl one after the other...solid iron-clad footwear knocking Gothic off her feet* Tak a clobberin yer blatherin' Yorkshire puddn'!!! ] Okay, now I'm done playing Ms. Nice Yorkist! Boys! Bring 'er in! *Goth's minions appear, dragging a trebuchet filled with... balloons?* Ready! Aim! *evil smile* Eat rubber cement, Lancastrian! FIRE!*the balloons explode on and around Mira, drenching her in rapidly-drying sticky glue, severely inhibiting her movement* Drugged ale, really... Is there nothing these Lancastrians won't stoop to? Baaad choice of destinations, though... Silly Mira, didn't you know the Irish are loyal Yorkists?
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